344 replies to this topic

[MasterNoob]

I really like the idea masternoob, when I started playing on tf2center people were a lot more serious then they are now, people dont really seem to take lobbys that serious anymore. I really like the idea of advanced lobbys besides from 1 minor detail, I dont think there should be a minimum division requirement, some people are actually good but don't play competetive in a team, I dont use a mic 95% of the time so obviously advanced lobbys is not something for me, yet. I also think the idea of inviting your own friends to the group is going to turn into an aidsfest quite quickly, it only takes 1 person that invites all his/her friends and the chain reaction started, I know this will happen because I have a trading group with well over 2000 members and I used this 'strategy' to get members. I was also wondering, when is this going to become a thing? Is it just an idea or is it actually something that's going to be on the actual website in a couple of months?

 

There is not going to be a min div requirement; that will just be used as the initial group. About inviting friends: that still have to go through a moderator team, so I'm sure they will filter most abuse.

 

I cannot tell you when this is going live, there are some other things on top our list first.

[Alphasupreme]

 

This is long because I read through the entire thread replying as issues and comments were written!

 

 

try hards expect everyone to be great and if you are new or make too many mistakes in one game they tell you to "Delete team fortress 2 from your computer!" or "never lobby again!"

 

I do believe that in any lobby a player should understand their role before playing it -- or at least I hope this is what happens with the forthcoming higher tier of lobbies. I've always thought if you can't top score in a pub as that class, you probably shouldn't play it in a lobby. The higher tier lobbies, in my opinion, like TF2 PUGs should make it clear it's not a place to learn the game but a place to play at a half decent standard. In an ideal world anyway!

 

 

 

My problem isn't the fact that try-hards call people out for being bad, but its the fact that they don't give proper feedback to help players improve. Most of the time, when i do something wrong. I am left not knowing my mistakes.

Edited by Alphasupreme, 28 September 2014 - 09:45 AM.

[MasterNoob]

That is true. I do however want to add that it would be a good idea to announce that you're new to a certain class and you would like some guidance. I have seen players do that and there were no "witty" remarks.

 

So yes, I wouldn't approve people trashing inexperienced players but I would like to encourage people to act less passive and communicate.

 

As for AL, I don't think that would be the place per se to try new  things out; you should be doing that on pubs and maybe casual Lobbies.

[Zwockl]

I only just now found this thread, and i am really looking forward for this getting implemented! The only thing that worries me is that the two playerbases are going to trashtalk each other, and in general just having a bad atitude against each other. But really, i cant wait for this feature!

[ManSkirtDude101]

Can someone answer the question of how are we gonna pick specific players to play advanced lobbies?

[MasterNoob]

Can someone answer the question of how are we gonna pick specific players to play advanced lobbies?

 

Any of the following:

 

• participating in either ETF2L or UGC
• our moderators find that you have enough skills to play competitive AND
  • TF2C records indicate that you have been joining mumble
  • TF2C records indicate that you are not a troll

[The Once and Future King]

Doesn't most of the userbase have an ETF2L or UGC profile?

 

Soo ... almost everybody gets in then?

 

What exactly is going to make them take these "advanced lobbies" more seriously?  Just that you will now actually do something about it if they don't join mumble?

 

I still don't understand why you don't try to improve the quality of the regular lobbies instead of making new versions.  What happens when these devolve because the same people who are not giving a shit now are able to play these lobbies and still won't give a shit, do you just make "super advanced lobbies" instead of fixing them?

Edited by The Once and Future King, 30 September 2014 - 08:46 PM.

[MasterNoob]

Doesn't most of the userbase have an ETF2L or UGC profile?

Nope (38%)

 

I still don't understand why you don't try to improve the quality of the regular lobbies instead of making new versions.  What happens when these devolve because the same people who are not giving a shit now are able to play these lobbies and still won't give a shit, do you just make "super advanced lobbies" instead of fixing them?

Yup, it's called marketing.

[Foxy]

I still don't understand why you don't try to improve the quality of the regular lobbies instead of making new versions.  What happens when these devolve because the same people who are not giving a shit now are able to play these lobbies and still won't give a shit, do you just make "super advanced lobbies" instead of fixing them?

 

It's hard to change the mindset of people. As I've said before, we give leaders the ability to add restrictions, and people complain that they won't fill. We give the ability to see recent reliability and add restrictions, people don't use it, and then complain when people rage quit. 

This is an opportunity to set a mindset from the beginning, and test out a few things too. Rather than trying to fix the lobby mentality (which we've tried before, it just doesn't work that easily), we get to specify the rules and we get to lay out the punishments from the start. People who want to play completely seriously will go to the new format, and the new format will drive change downwards. By taking a largish subset of the playerbase and driving lobby quality there (with people that want the quality to improve), we can expand that change outwards and trickle through to the rest of the playerbase. And those that want to piss about, ruin games and ragequit learn their place then.

 

But because the mentality of players is as it is right now, we can't just start handing out severe punishments because the backlash will be huge from all over, not just the section we're trying to improve/remove.

[The Once and Future King]

Backlash from people that a lot of us don't want to play with and would rather not have using the site anyway.

[Shea]

it might take to long to do manually, but maybe an apply for advanced lobbies on the forums or something? Just a thought. 

[Alphasupreme]

it might take to long to do manually, but maybe an apply for advanced lobbies on the forums or something? Just a thought. 

I think something like this would work. Why not have a thread where you have write some sort of résumé to get into advanced lobbies. I think this will deter most trolls. Maybe it would be a good idea to only allow players who are part of a team into advanced lobbies, but thats just a thought. 

[kKaltUu]

There is no right answer for now, we're looking at ALL input in regards of constraints and regulation. Anything discussed here is taken in consideration.

 

Making players submit an application would could work, it would raise the overall effort players have to spend to get into the system but it would make a the system susceptible for favoritism from the admin on duty.

[Ten'son']

 

 

• Advanced Lobbies will appear at the top of the overview and shall be limited to 2 per region and game type at the time

 

Nope nope nope nope

Or at least more than 2.

 

 

 

it might take to long to do manually, but maybe an apply for advanced lobbies on the forums or something? Just a thought. 

I think something like this would work. Why not have a thread where you have write some sort of résumé to get into advanced lobbies. I think this will deter most trolls. Maybe it would be a good idea to only allow players who are part of a team into advanced lobbies, but thats just a thought. 

 

 

I don't think that is a good idea. Some people have played a lot of lobbies and are very good but still have no team.

[Alphasupreme]

Here is my idea:
 

Getting in:

Players who want to play in advanced lobbies have to write a post on the forums highlighting things like their skill and experience with tf2 as well as what team and league they play in*. They must specify what game mode they want to play( highlander, 6v6 etc.) as well as class or classes they want to play as and must have a demo video of them playing a lobby as the classes they choose, one demo per class. They must also have at least: 100 lobbies played, 1000+ of tf2 played, and a current reputation of 100%. There will then be a waiting period where the  post will be reviewed by three admins**. They must decide a personal yes or no verdict and reply to the post with their verdict along with a reason for their choice, if less then two admins say yes to the post then the player will be denied access and will have to wait a week before they can post another message if they want. If two admins say yes but one says no then a fourth admin will step in to be the determining vote. If all three or the fourth admin say yes then the player will be granted access to play and create advanced lobbies as the classes he specified in his post. If he wishes to play a class or game-mode that was not specified in the post, this person will need to create a new post for any additional classes or game modes.

 

Advanced lobbies:

Actual advanced lobbies will be similar to normal lobbies but there will be some differences:

1: Players must be in mumble before the lobby is launched, if they are not in mumble when the lobby is launched they will be kicked.

2: Class changing will not be allowed once the match starts.

3: There can only be five open lobbies per region and game-mode***.

4: Event maps are not allowed.

 

Bans:

If a player gets reported or kicked, instead of loosing reputation I think they should get a warning in the form of a little red x on their profile. If they get three warnings they will be denied access to advanced lobbies until they write an appeal. If they regain permission they will be allowed back on advanced lobbies. If they get another three warnings they will receive a permanent ban from tf2center.

 

Player rights and attitude:

Players will be given the right to enjoy their games but players will be expected to take advanced lobbies seriously. Players have the right to do anything pre-game as long as it does not create a problem for anyone else. But once a match starts players will be expected to keep their team and the game in mind when they play. While not punishable, players will be expected to know proper mumble etiquette. Players will be given every right to report someone for excessive talking on the mic. A rule page for advanced lobbies will be created and new advanced lobby players will be expected and advised to read these rules.

 

Notes:

*Team and leagues are optional.

** These admins must be assessed for lack of favouritism. 

*** This will ensure lobbies fill.

Edited by Alphasupreme, 04 October 2014 - 09:40 AM.

[kyumin2lee]

Sorry, but I personally dislike the idea.

 

Casual lobbies will just be made more crap than it is, and will make it very hard for newbies to come into tf2center.

 

Not everyone wants to mumble when playing lobbies.

 

It'll require to much effort from the admins or mods to verify EVERYONE wanting to play advanced lobbies, and any kind of automation will likely fail

 

Whats wrong with just working on enforcing Mumble and putting up lobby requirements on these existing lobbies?

I mean these features exist for a reason -__-

[Alphasupreme]

Sorry, but I personally dislike the idea.

 

Casual lobbies will just be made more crap than it is, and will make it very hard for newbies to come into tf2center.

 

Not everyone wants to mumble when playing lobbies.

 

It'll require to much effort from the admins or mods to verify EVERYONE wanting to play advanced lobbies, and any kind of automation will likely fail

 

Whats wrong with just working on enforcing Mumble and putting up lobby requirements on these existing lobbies?

I mean these features exist for a reason -__-

 

I can see where your coming from but I disagree. Just because something exists doesn't mean it is used. If we were to enforce mumble, mumble required lobbies would take longer to fill. I won't point fingers but some lobby creators don't create requirements and instead kick players who they consider "bad" and don't even state why they kicked that person. While I'm not trying to criticise you I would like to point out that in competitive tf2 it is undeniable that communication gives teams an advantage. While tf2center could have no-mumble advanced lobbies I fear they would be barren deserts as most people who would like to see advanced lobbies become a thing already know the importance of mumble.

 

As for the issue with verifying everyone, I don't think the admins would have to deal with tsunami's of requests as people who don't take lobbies seriously or don't have the proper requirements won't post. 

Edited by Alphasupreme, 04 October 2014 - 01:33 PM.

[MasterNoob]

@Alphasupreme

 

Altho I like your seriousness about AL, I think you're taking it a bit too far right now. You're creating one hell of an administration for our admins to check every single player. Have you considered we're talking 10k - 15k players?

 

As for the bans, we're not going to permaban people. Call me naive, but I believe in people learning from their mistakes. So most punishments will be in a similar way that DOTA or CSGO do by introducing cooling down periods. Everything will be automated tho, since I will not bother our admins with incidents like this.

 

Anyway, most of the stuff you're arguing has already been said by me in this thread, so I'm sure you will like what's coming ;-)

 

MN

[Alphasupreme]

Then I look forward to it!

[b33p]

Anyway, most of the stuff you're arguing has already been said by me in this thread, so I'm sure you will like what's coming ;-)

 

MN

 

That hint of progress!