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Advanced Lobbies



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#1 MasterNoob

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:15 PM

Gentlemen,

 

To some of you I have already spoken, this post basically sums up everything we have discussed already. There are some details that needs implementation, so let’s debate that here.

 

By the time I write this, we have almost reached 55.000 players in our database. Although this is a big achievement, this will also pose some “challenges” for us. I’m sure I’m not the only one noticing: the quality of Lobbies has become increasingly more low, especially over the last few months. The stuff I have seen was never my intention when we first started our open beta, 9 months ago. Although we had many bugs, I was surprised to see how many people would show up in Mumble and play good games. But ever since TF2Lobby shut down, things have become worse. There is one particular line that really makes me angry: “It’s just a Lobby”, as a reply when players confront them screwing up.

 

It turns out our community is divided into two: those who like to play “just Lobbies” and those who take things more serious and want to get better at the game. Mixing these have been the root cause of all the pain I stated above, so it’s time to change things. Therefore, I’m happy to announce:

 

“Advanced Lobbies”: this will be our new brand for those who take playing at TF2C more serious; it will require everyone to be in Mumble and there will be penalties when one gets reported, not shows up in Mumble or just trolls. It’s not so much about skill level, but we value things like commitment more. Of course, there needs to be some minimum skill level, since a player got to have a clue as to what he’s doing; this will be ~ div6, meaning that if you’re in one of the various leagues, you can participate in Advanced Lobbies.

 

To make it very clear that there is a big difference between this new Advanced Lobbies, there will be a Steam group, analogous to the Easy Mixes. This group will be community managed and invite-only. This means that existing players may invite friends, but they are also responsible for them at the same time, so if those friends fuck up, they will be held responsible as well. This group will be pre-populated with every known league player in our database, along with a bunch of players who always show up in Mumble. We have been monitoring our Mumble server for the last five months, which enables us to perform extensive analysis on various aspects.

 

Advanced Lobbies will still remain in the overview of Lobbies, but indicated with different colors. Every player is allowed to open one, but they will not be able to join, analogous to slots where one does not meet the requirements. There will be a dedicated page explaining what we mean by Advanced Lobbies, and how does one get into that.

 

To answer that last question, there are several ways to do that. First of all, there will be the community moderators who will decide if you fit into the whole thing. Next to that, there could be transition Lobbies where we allow 2 non-advanced players to try it, and see how they do. Another way would be allow them to try out AL’s when they have x Lobbies played, y hours and less than z RQ’s or whatever. All details to be implemented later.

 

The first important thing is to actually get a separation between the two and see if the quality of the game improves. If that turns out as expected, it’s time to start thinking of the transition of non-AL.

 

A few other things that has been discussed but not stated in the above:

  • We will introduce an immediate cool-down of one hour after a (manual) report or not showing up in Mumble (or be deafened, which we consider absent anyway)
  • There will be incremental punishments for those who those above; eg. 2 days join ban, etc..
  • There will be warnings before a player is to get punished, so it will be very clear that certain behaviors will not be tolerated and result into consequences
  • The threshold for manual reporting for HL will be increased from 4 to 6 to make sure a manual report is fully supported by all Lobby players
  • Advanced Lobbies will appear at the top of the overview and shall be limited to 2 per region and game type at the time
  • The Lobby filter will be adjusted so that one can filter Advanced Lobbies
  • Advanced Players will get the ability to create Advanced Lobbies through a checkbox, while non-Advanced Players will only be able to create non-AL’s.
  • A non-Advanced Lobby shall be known as a “Casual Lobby”, which in itself indicates that there is more and matches perfectly with the attitude “it’s just a Lobby”

That's all for now; let’s debate!

 

MN


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#2 TheMattgician

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:34 PM

The problem with this is that the normal lobbies will probably become complete trash.

Also, should mere mortals even see Advanced Lobbies?


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#3 Luop90

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:52 PM

Thank you. We need this. I keep having people who join to screw off, and go "y u take dis so cerialy. its jst a lobby" and like rage when they get reported. This will be VERY beneficial.


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#4 MasterNoob

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:13 PM

Also, should mere mortals even see Advanced Lobbies?

 

They do, this way we will try to get them interested to "evolve".


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#5 VoidWhisperer

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 08:55 PM

I really like this idea. :) I know quite a few people who would want to be involved in these, since normal lobbies are very quickly degrading in quality.



#6 Kenneth

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 11:50 PM

This is the way to go. For etf2l you can get an api for who played in what div. I can provide a list of steam ids for ozfortress of people who have played in the last few owls. America will be a bit harder I think.

#7 Computer

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 11:57 PM

America will be a bit harder I think.

 

Well we can already detect UGC profiles, so I don't think that this should be that hard.



#8 Kenneth

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 12:07 AM

ESEA though? Cevo? There's an entire class of player that has never played Ugc.

#9 kKaltUu

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 06:34 PM

great idea, stricter rules and enforced mumble is a huge step towards higher quality of lobbies.


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#10 Marty

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 10:16 AM

One thing, maps.

 

For advanced lobbies, you are obviously wanting players to "take it seriously" and not fuck around. There is also a limit to how many games there can be per region etc.

 

We should make sure that the lobbies that are advanced will be of certain competitive maps, instead of someone starting a koth_wubwubwub that will literally not fill and just take up space for another AL. We should have a list of maps to "choose" from, which should be the most commonly played lobby maps and the UGC maps/ETF2L etc.


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#11 MasterNoob

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 10:29 AM

One thing, maps.

 

For advanced lobbies, you are obviously wanting players to "take it seriously" and not fuck around. There is also a limit to how many games there can be per region etc.

 

We should make sure that the lobbies that are advanced will be of certain competitive maps, instead of someone starting a koth_wubwubwub that will literally not fill and just take up space for another AL. We should have a list of maps to "choose" from, which should be the most commonly played lobby maps and the UGC maps/ETF2L etc.

 

I'm sure we can come up with a "TF2C default comp maps bundle" ;-)


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#12 Marty

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 10:59 AM

cp_badlands

cp_croissant_final

cp_freight_final1

cp_granary

cp_gravelpit

cp_gullywash_final1

cp_process_final

cp_snakewater_final1

cp_steel

cp_yukon_final

koth_arctic_b3

koth_ashville_rc1

koth_pro_viaduct_rc4

pl_badwater

pl_barnblitz_pro4

pl_swiftwater_ugc

pl_upward

cp_crossaint_rc11

ctf_turbine_pro_rc4

koth_coalplant_b7

pl_borneo_rc3

 

This is for Highlander/6v6.

 

We should probably allow all maps for Ultiduo/4v4 cus i dont think anyone of us really knows much about those gamemodes and I suppose almost any map could be played on them.


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#13 Some_Thing

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 05:11 AM

Advanced lobbies should not apply to BBall/Ultiduo as they are supposed to be "casual" anyway.

 

Also, please don't bundle stock maps...



#14 The Once and Future King

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 02:47 PM

Heard about this the other day from someone I was playing a lobby with.  Looking forward to its implementation.  My only concern right now is that the Mumble icons on the lobby screen are not always accurate to who is and is not in mumble, half the time it shows me as not in mumble when I am and I see it showing a lot of other players as not in mumble when they are.  Unless that is something different from where you are getting your "who's in mumble" that needs to be fixed or a lot of people actually in mumble will be punished for not being in mumble.



#15 Computer

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 06:53 PM

Heard about this the other day from someone I was playing a lobby with.  Looking forward to its implementation.  My only concern right now is that the Mumble icons on the lobby screen are not always accurate to who is and is not in mumble, half the time it shows me as not in mumble when I am and I see it showing a lot of other players as not in mumble when they are.  Unless that is something different from where you are getting your "who's in mumble" that needs to be fixed or a lot of people actually in mumble will be punished for not being in mumble.

 

Someone has to actually click on the "Join Mumble" button to show up as in mumble on the lobby page.



#16 MasterNoob

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 07:57 PM

 

Heard about this the other day from someone I was playing a lobby with.  Looking forward to its implementation.  My only concern right now is that the Mumble icons on the lobby screen are not always accurate to who is and is not in mumble, half the time it shows me as not in mumble when I am and I see it showing a lot of other players as not in mumble when they are.  Unless that is something different from where you are getting your "who's in mumble" that needs to be fixed or a lot of people actually in mumble will be punished for not being in mumble.

 

Someone has to actually click on the "Join Mumble" button to show up as in mumble on the lobby page.

 

 

Nope, manual joins work fine. There is currently a known issue for players that are already on mumble before the game starts; in that case, deafen and undeafen yourself to trigger a refresh.



#17 R.E.M.

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:47 PM

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I've been pushing for something like this ever since I became a member. I didn't have time to read the whole initial post I will do that later and post much more detailed feedback.

 

 

We should probably allow all maps for Ultiduo/4v4 cus i dont think anyone of us really knows much about those gamemodes and I suppose almost any map could be played on them.

 

We should certainly change the dropdown list for maps depending on which game mode is selected and which league is selected as well. Perhaps we could literally just copy the maplists from the relevant leagues?


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#18 Marty

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 08:28 AM

Well even if UGC for some reason doesn't do Upward some season doesn't mean that people can't play it?



#19 R.E.M.

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 03:19 PM

Well even if UGC for some reason doesn't do Upward some season doesn't mean that people can't play it?

 

yeah so then you change it to one that does have it or you have one of the dropdown options as "all comp maps" or something but if people wanna use advanced lobbies to practice maps then they're likely going to use maps on the rotation of the league they play in.

 

It's like how you can tell what map is playing played in ETF2L 6s each week because you ONLY GET THAT MAP in lobbies (until we limited them).


Edited by R.E.M., 11 August 2014 - 03:20 PM.

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#20 TheMattgician

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 04:18 PM

Ah yes, I remember that time when all the lobbies were cp_steel.

 

Anyway, we can just make it so that putting up a troll map on advanced lobbies is a bannable offense.







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