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Solution to the mumble crisis, spectating, and mentors (now have a 'spec team')



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#1 Schemex

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 06:24 PM

Spectating: When a leader creates a lobby, s/he should be able to specify how many spectators his/her server can support.  This number should default to 0, when the create a lobby window pops up.  However, probably most people will ignore this feature.  As for the selection process, there should be a way to flag yourself as wanting to spectate because not everyone in "spectate" (section of the lobby page) wants to spectate.  You could do this by having "spectator spots" underneath the player slots section.  Above the new section for people who wish to spectate, there should be the number the owner of the lobby said s/he can support of spectators.  The people who join these spec slots, have to be forced to join spec, otherwise this could be an exploitable feature (have !rep spec 1).  After a player has been repped and they are waiting for a sub, the spec should be allowed to play until the sub joins, this would serve as an incentive to lobby leaders to allow specs (more guarantee of a good lobby).  The specs could be perma-muted but still join mumble

 

Mentors: I have over 450 lobbies and main medic.  I notice a large quantity of medics who do not know how to play the class.  If there is a way to put these two things together, the website would benefit by having people who understand HL, 6's, 4's, bball, ultiduo, and whatever other gamemodes there are.  Even if it is done over the forum, I would sign up to be a mentor.  However, I think doing this over a forum would lead to lack of people understanding how to get/be a mentors.  So put a link to it above the chat box on the index page.

 

 

Solution to mumble crisis:

 

Introduction:  The only way to fix the mumble crisis is by implementing all of bellow.  There is no "easy fix" for a cultural issue.

 

Awareness:  New players may not be aware, so there should be forced tutorials on how to work the site along with mumble help such as raising your mic volume, installing mumble, setting up your mic, push to talk, and volume activated mic (I am willing to make the tutorials for all of which, for windows and maybe ubuntu).*

 

*I have no idea if this is already implemented.  I have been lobbying for a while, so I don't remember the registration process.

 

Verification:  I have heard there are mumble plugins that allow you to see who is in a mumble.  I was thinking that maybe there could be a mumble verification process.  The users are given a key when they first join tf2center and a "join mumble" button.  When they join the mumble verifying subsection of your mumble server, they enter the key in chat, and it is cross referenced with the key in database. if it is correct, the user is "mumble enabled."  Prior to being "mumble enabled," users should not be allowed to use mumble in lobbies.  Possibly, users with more than 80 lobbies, won't have to go through this process.  However, the benefit of having them go through the process is having experienced users that can teach others how to verify mumble (I am willing to write/record a tutorial for this).

 

70% practice:  As I stated earlier, there are mumble plugins that exist to tell who is in mumble.  There needs to be an auto MUMBLE reporting system.  Mumble reputation should be separate from regular rep, that way users don't feel intimidating into not reporting, in fear of a lobby not starting.  If you want to, there could be a way to manually mumble report in game, but that isn't required to fix the problem.  Users with 70% mumble participation or more, should be allowed to join mumble required lobbies, otherwise they shouldn't.  Every time a user is not in mumble it is counted against the user's mumble reliability, the same way rage-quits count against the user's lobby reliability.   The user should start at 0% reliability, and then after 10 lobbies that aren't mumble required, then lobby will create percentage based on how many times the user was in mumble.  After the initial 10, the user's mumble reliability is not determined by non-mumble required lobbies.  However, users need to be notified of the update, otherwise it could lead to issues both when signing up, down the road.  All current users should start at 100% reliability.

 

 

Or the mix's way: Just make everyone be in mumble, and if they don't join, ban them.

 

 

Trolls:  The !rep system is broken.  Trolls join the hardest, most important classes like medic, heavy, engineer (on pl), and/or demo.  The players that use tf2center recognize the difficulty of finding those classes, and in fear of the lobby not starting, they don't rep them.  Joining a sub slot is viewed as a gamble because you can join a minute from the end or be auto-reported when it says "bad password", this lessens the pool of candidates that can join sub slots.  Also, we need to restrict medic to 50+/25+ lobbies because the class requires a lot of game sense and can easily ruin lobbies.

 

 

There could also be a post lobby, troll report.  But I fear that, if this was a feature, people would confuse trolls with new players.

 

 

If you need any clarification, add me on steam, http://steamcommunity.com/id/Schemex/, to set up a mumble meeting.


Edited by TheMattgician, 01 June 2014 - 12:56 PM.
Edited title in terms of what's scheduled

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#2 TheMattgician

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 11:51 AM

Sorry for the delay on this. Here's my 2 cents though.

 

Spectators: The 'spectators' in the lobby page don't indicate potential spectators in the server, merely people looking at the page. Having actual spectators in the lobby seems like a lot of work for a fairly small benefit. I don't think many people would actually use such feature.

 

Mumble: Honestly, I don't really see where the crisis is. For the lobbies that don't require mumble, there's nothing to be done. On the mumble required lobby, I rarely see people missing, and when I do it's not terribly important. Your solution seems to be a hassle not only for the devs, but also for the users.

I do agree there should be splash screen for new users, though I think that's already the case (correct me if I'm wrong though).

 

Trolls: If there's an obvious troll in the lobby, make a ban request. The mod team will take it from there. When it comes to medic restriction, it's up to the lobby make to decide. That's a design decision TF2C is probably going to stick with.

 

Thank you for your input!



#3 The Once and Future King

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 06:14 PM

Mumble: Honestly, I don't really see where the crisis is. For the lobbies that don't require mumble, there's nothing to be done. On the mumble required lobby, I rarely see people missing, and when I do it's not terribly important. Your solution seems to be a hassle not only for the devs, but also for the users.

I do agree there should be splash screen for new users, though I think that's already the case (correct me if I'm wrong though).

 

 

You must get really lucky on the lobbies you join, because when I lobby I very rarely play with 9 players in mumble.  In fact when I do there are usually 1 or 2 people who comment on how surprised they are that everybody is in mumble which tells me that they see the same thing I do.  I think there is in fact at least one thread in the Members section talking about the possibility of implementing a mumble reliability system similar to what he is talking about.  This is not mentioning the people who join mumble despite not having mic's so they can only listen to comms but not contribute, though I see this as less of a problem since that is a lot better than not being in mumble at all and lets face just because someone joins mumble and has a mic doesn't mean they actually contribute to comms.



#4 Lilith

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 07:20 PM

Spectators: The 'spectators' in the lobby page don't indicate potential spectators in the server, merely people looking at the page. Having actual spectators in the lobby seems like a lot of work for a fairly small benefit. I don't think many people would actually use such feature.

 

Enable SourceTV! :)

 

It's really quite simple to do, tf2center could have an option in the creation like "Allow spectators" and "max spectators", or use the server tv max clients value. Configure it before the map starts if enabled, and then change the level.

 

You can get all the info you need from "tv_status", an example:

--- SourceTV Status ---
Online 20:58:59, FPS 66.7, Version 2230303 (Linux)
Master "Match TV", delay 90
Game Time 20:53:14, Mod "tf", Map "pl_upward", Players 0
Local IP IPADDR:27020, KB/sec In 0.0, Out 0.0
Local Slots 128, Spectators 0, Proxies 0
Total Slots 128, Spectators 0, Proxies 0

Edited by Lilith, 26 May 2014 - 07:21 PM.

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#5 ninjaMooCow

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 08:19 PM

In the end, I think that joining a spec slot would be kind of cool.

Lots of people get excited when the best players in tf2 join a lobby like Stabby or Max! or me.

 

Ok, not me.

 

I bet they would use that.



#6 Luop90

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Posted 26 May 2014 - 10:55 PM

That would be a cool option to add, have a separate "team" for spectators who want to actually watch the game, and instead of sending them to the TF2 server, send them to the SourceTV server. Than under lobby creation, have an option "Enable SourceTV Spectators?" and if someone checks it, open up a new box underneath it for the SourceTV server IP. Would be neat to see implemented. 


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#7 R.E.M.

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 02:44 PM

I think the idea of having a "team" for joining the STV is a great idea and should definatly be done. However instead of being displayed as a team it should just be a checkbox next to your entry in the spectators list or maybe even just a button like the "join mumble" or "connect" buttons. I think a third team section would be very cluttered looking but then Mother tereza is in charge of all the design UI decisions so it's up to him.

 

As for mentors this has been discussed before and may well happen when the devs get round to looking at it but we have to be very careful about who we accept as mentors. I have 468 lobbies (all of them playing as med) and I main medic but I would not be confident mentoring even a completely new medic. We need people with proven experience in the div 3+ range otherwise everyone and their mum is going to be a mentor and there will be a very wide range of abilities to teach because as we all know, the best medic in the world can still be a shit teacher.

 

Forced tutorials will be ignored most likely, when you shove something down people's throats that hard then they tend to ignore it. We have been working on a splash page for beginners and it's good but I haven't heard much about it for a while. It's all ready to go and everything because I (and a few others) were spell checking it a month ago (ish).

 

I can't comment on the key system for mumble but it sounds good on paper, it's just a question of implementing it. Mumble reputation has been discussed at great length (where your ideas have come up before) and we are intending on adding it sometime but it's just coming up with the best way of implementing it, writing the code for it, testing it and testing it and testing it .... and then actually adding it and dealing with all the inevitable bugs that'll come up. Unfortunately our devs are busy people IRL so things can be a little slow sometimes - we're always looking for people with coding experience.

 

Medics can be restricted to number of lobbies but we have no plans to implement this as a default but the option is there for you if you want it.

 

As for trolls we have to rely on the community to report them on the forums. We can implement as many systems as we like to get rid of them but ultimately they'll find a way around anything we throw at them.


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#8 TheMattgician

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 03:38 PM

For the STV thing, you could have a mumble channel that uses the mimic bot for each team. Hell, it would be a great tool for mentoring.



#9 Lilith

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 05:59 PM

For the STV thing, you could have a mumble channel that uses the mimic bot for each team. Hell, it would be a great tool for mentoring.

 

A mimic bot would be a bit too much, it'd require a clone for each player, pretty much doubling the amount of users in mumble.



#10 Luop90

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 05:39 PM

STV has a 90 second delay, so you would hear everything a minute and a half before you see it. Maybe a separate "specatators" team in mumble?
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#11 MasterNoob

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Posted 01 June 2014 - 12:27 AM

This would fit in the grand scheme of "from public to competitive", where people could actually learn something by watching others play. The question is if that needs to be implemented for every Lobby.

 

I like this idea, but when and in what form it will be implemented is unsure.



#12 H3aling

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 08:20 PM

Hey there!

I have a suggestion of having a spectate game button!

at the current moment only people who are actually playing the game can join it!

In my opinion there should be a tab along with lobbies where people can watch svtv footage from on going matches.

if any of your friends are playing any game their lobbies will appear on top!

their can also be a way for people can watch demos from serverme.tf but they appear on your profile

this are also help in validating fake ban reports as u can cheak it from their demo file if it was dem indeed!


Edited by Dreamcat, 29 September 2015 - 01:57 PM.
Topics Merged; Original Titel "Spectating game idea for tf2c"


#13 H3aling

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 09:37 PM

Hey there!

I have a preety big suggestion, I don`t really know if it can even be a possibility

Spectating and demo reviews

At the current moment only people in the game can actually join and the host can see the sv.tv.

My idea is that there should be a diffrent tab along with lobbies where people can go watch ongoing matches svtv footage.

 How this would work is that people would have to enter the svtv rcon and connect info as they normal do when creating a lobby!.

in the tab u should also be able see what lobbies your friends are queued up for and watch their games!

 

A another idea is having a demo system that shows the last 10 recent demos at their profile or a a link to their serverme.tf profile, This will not only help making rosters for teams but help is fake ban reports as can no longer be made.

 

talking bout the the spec feture a bit more having a button at their profile would also be kewl...

 

umm ye all i got.


Edited by Dreamcat, 29 September 2015 - 01:58 PM.
Topics Merged; Original Titel "Spectate lobbies in tf2c"


#14 H3aling

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 09:03 AM

Hey there!

At the current moment only the host can see the sv.tv.

My idea is that there should be a diffrent tab along with lobbies where people can go watch ongoing matches svtv footage.

 How this would work is that people would have to enter the svtv rcon and connect info as they normally do when creating a lobby!.

in the tab u should also be able see what lobbies your friends are in and watch their games!

A another idea is having a demo system that shows the last 10 recent demos at their profile and/or a link to their serverme.tf profile, This will not only help making rosters for teams but help in validating reports as can no longer be forged.

 

talking bout the the spec feture a bit more having a button at their profile would also be kewl...

 

umm ye all i got.


Edited by Dreamcat, 15 October 2015 - 10:37 AM.
Topics Merged; Original Titel "Spectate and demo fetures!"


#15 Kengur

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 09:52 PM

 

Hey there!

At the current moment only the host can see the sv.tv.

My idea is that there should be a diffrent tab along with lobbies where people can go watch ongoing matches svtv footage.

 How this would work is that people would have to enter the svtv rcon and connect info as they normally do when creating a lobby!.

in the tab u should also be able see what lobbies your friends are in and watch their games!

A another idea is having a demo system that shows the last 10 recent demos at their profile and/or a link to their serverme.tf profile, This will not only help making rosters for teams but help in validating reports as can no longer be forged.

 

talking bout the the spec feture a bit more having a button at their profile would also be kewl...

 

umm ye all i got.

 

Most lobbys are cancerous. Why would anyone watch it is beyound me. Anyway Steam has built in stream feature, so just watch your friends there. Cheers.



#16 Scrambled

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 12:57 PM

Would be nice if there were a way for lobby leaders to submit STV details when starting a lobby. (This would perhaps be done automatically or be a checkbox option for donators opening a serveme.tf server)

 

I think it would be a way for newer players to ease their way into competitive, rather than jumping in to the deep end, so to speak. You could also maybe list active lobbies with SourceTV enabled on the main page alongside lobbies waiting to be filled.

 

I'm suggesting this because I often see newer players trying to spectate games by sitting in the spectators section.


Edited by Dreamcat, 16 October 2015 - 01:04 PM.
Topics Merged; Original Titel "SourceTV Support"

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#17 Hobojoex1

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 04:26 AM

I have often found myself watching competative games of TF2, and I think the spectator slots should actually be able to spectate, hence the name "Spectator." I don't care how you do it, or if you do at all. Thank you for putting this into consideration. :)


Edited by Mother Tereza, 12 January 2016 - 12:14 PM.
Topics Merged; Original Title "Spectators in the lobby page should be able to really spectate"






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