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Rule against the excessive extension of lobbies



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#1 Kirito

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 10:22 PM

When one team is very stacked, they are able to dictate how long a lobby will last by not capping, letting the other team cap, or preventing the other team from capping.  The other team is left with a very unfun lobby that can last until the server time runs out, when it should have ended quickly, with the stacked team rolling. Fortunately, it is rare that this is abused too much, since it requires the entire team to not cap and a large disparity in skill.  Still, it does happen, and should be against the rules.
 
I don’t know where to draw the line as to what is excessive, but never capping on a koth map, where there is no time limit, is excessive. The stacked team can prevent the lobby from ever ending, unless the other team somehow closes the lobby.  See my ban request.
 
From UGC rules: “Another example of poor sportsmanship is spawn camping while ignoring the map goals, such as camping the enemy spawn while ignoring the cart on a Payload map.”


#2 Highvlass Heavy

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 05:07 PM

A rule like this is currently being discussed. Hopefully we'll have something to show soon. 



#3 Tury

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Posted 31 October 2015 - 09:42 PM

 

When one team is very stacked, they are able to dictate how long a lobby will last by letting the other team cap
 
From UGC rules: “Another example of poor sportsmanship is spawn camping while ignoring the map goals, such as camping the enemy spawn while ignoring the cart on a Payload map.”

 

 

Okay, if the other team caps the point even thought they consciously know that they are being rolled, that's their problems, not the other teams. 

 

Also, just because the UGC rules say it's an example of poor sportsmanship to spawn camp, that doesn't mean that center has to follow every rule in UGC. 

 

In my 2,500 lobbies, I have never seen a team spawn camp on a KOTH map while the point was not capped. If that's ever happened (which is more than possible), then that would be an extreme case where maybe giving bans or warnings or whatever would be allowed. But banning people for saying "let them cap" is stupid, and it's been a thing on center since the beginning... It's just the way it goes. 



#4 Kirito

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Posted 01 November 2015 - 01:21 AM

I don't want people to be afraid of letting the other team cap in general, since it is possible for this to be a good thing. Very recently I played a lobby where we were allowed to cap, and we soundly beat them after that. Still, I'd like to point out that it only takes one person to cap, so it will happen almost every time the stacked team lets them. 

 

UGC rules obviously don't apply directly to TF2C, that's why they don't carry over most bans. However, they are a good reference as a good deal of thought has gone into them. Right now, TF2C doesn't have a rule against generally being a jerk, which is the only thing that was in the old rules. If they don't want such a rule, then they need to include as many ways that you can be a jerk on TF2C in the rules, which, I believe, should include spawn camping while ignoring map objectives. After reading your post I realize this was the main problem, not the extension of the lobby. However, it would still be nice if excessive extensions of very unbalanced lobbies was also not allowed, on a case-by-case basis.

 

I know that this extreme of a case is very rare, especially for skilled players. I've played over 2000 lobbies and this is the first time it's happened to me on a KOTH map. I made this ban request (link) and even talked with Fairy, but I was denied because such an action is not explicitly against the new rules. Which was unfair, I believe, since the new rules had not be posted yet.


Edited by Kirito, 01 November 2015 - 01:21 AM.


#5 sage78

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Posted 01 November 2015 - 05:35 AM

It's part of the game. Getting greedy with frags and being an asshole when there's a huge skill gap between both teams... There's some people who do that but thats just a waste of everyone's time.

#6 Tury

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 02:16 PM

I've also seen this backfire on a lot of teams to. The team will let them cap all the points at the last second, then fail to push the 1st point and half the team rage quits out of frustration. Only happens like %20 of the time, but it still happens every now and then.


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#7 fishie

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 07:38 PM

we should think about avoid stacking lobbies rather than to handle them !!!


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#8 Tury

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 07:49 PM

we should think about avoid stacking lobbies rather than to handle them !!!

That's what Advanced Lobbies tried (and failed) to do. Unless the leader bans or kicks certain people to force the teams to be more even, you really can't make a lobby "balanced", unless you start to seperate players by division (people who play in steel can't play in lobbies that are anything higher than silver), but the problem with that is, there's more lower div players on center than higher div players, so higher div players would either alt or just stop using center altogether. 

I honestly don't think that "letting them cap" is such a big deal, the times where my team has been given a cap, I've either just stuck it out or repped myself if it was too unbearable. It's annoying, but not to the point where it needs to be a major deal, and the solutions would cause more problems than fixes imo. 







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