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Team randomiser (anti-stacking system)



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#1 fraac

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 05:27 PM

MasterNoob suggested this be a new thread. There is a big problem that very often you can see in advance which team will win. I'm bored of obvious 5-0 games. An option to create a randomised lobby, where players pick classes and are then randomly sorted into teams, would be an easy way to eliminate this problem.

 

As here: http://forums.tf2cen...-system/?p=3082



#2 Holographic Charizard

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 02:38 PM

Only problem I can think of would be those who join with friends and would like to play on their team. 



#3 The Once and Future King

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 02:55 PM

Only problem I can think of would be those who join with friends and would like to play on their team. 

 

If you are playing a lobby with friends don't join a lobby with the randomize feature enabled .... problem solved.



#4 R.E.M.

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:34 PM

 

Only problem I can think of would be those who join with friends and would like to play on their team. 

 

If you are playing a lobby with friends don't join a lobby with the randomize feature enabled .... problem solved.

 

 

Except if all the lobbies are randomised and there are already a lot of lobbies up so yours either won't fill or appear on the main page then what could you do?


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#5 fraac

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 10:59 PM

I often see 6 or 7 EU 6v6 lobbies open at once. You could limit that and still have room for balanced and stackable lobbies.



#6 The Once and Future King

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 11:00 PM

 

 

Only problem I can think of would be those who join with friends and would like to play on their team. 

 

If you are playing a lobby with friends don't join a lobby with the randomize feature enabled .... problem solved.

 

 

Except if all the lobbies are randomised and there are already a lot of lobbies up so yours either won't fill or appear on the main page then what could you do?

 

 

I would imagine they could do it the way they do Mumble required lobbies and not consider it a duplicate so you would see it.  Or you just wait because if all of the lobbies up are using it then that would mean that people clearly want it more than a normal lobby and just because one person is afraid of it doesn't mean that users don't want it.


Edited by The Once and Future King, 17 April 2014 - 11:01 PM.

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#7 R.E.M.

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 08:52 PM

I would imagine they could do it the way they do Mumble required lobbies and not consider it a duplicate so you would see it.  Or you just wait because if all of the lobbies up are using it then that would mean that people clearly want it more than a normal lobby and just because one person is afraid of it doesn't mean that users don't want it.

 

It's not a case of being "afraid" it's a case of being inconvenianced. I know I'm far from the only one who plays with friends on TF2Center, heck I quite frequently see half of an ETF2L highlander team on the same team in a HL lobby but there are fluctuations in the lobby types, sometimes there are no mumble required lobbies and sometimes there are only mumble required lobbies. We need to find a way of keeping the numbers of each type of lobby consistent. Perhaps this could be incorporated somehow into the filter system like Fraac suggested?


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#8 The Once and Future King

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 08:55 PM

 

I would imagine they could do it the way they do Mumble required lobbies and not consider it a duplicate so you would see it.  Or you just wait because if all of the lobbies up are using it then that would mean that people clearly want it more than a normal lobby and just because one person is afraid of it doesn't mean that users don't want it.

 

It's not a case of being "afraid" it's a case of being inconvenianced. I know I'm far from the only one who plays with friends on TF2Center, heck I quite frequently see half of an ETF2L highlander team on the same team in a HL lobby but there are fluctuations in the lobby types, sometimes there are no mumble required lobbies and sometimes there are only mumble required lobbies. We need to find a way of keeping the numbers of each type of lobby consistent. Perhaps this could be incorporated somehow into the filter system like Fraac suggested?

 

 

Well I know there are threads already discussing things like capping the number of lobbies based on online players.  I'm sure it can be capped per lobby type.  If they got capped based on lobby type then that would guarantee you could always make a new lobby that was not randomized (assuming the cap is not reached).



#9 Mahmoud

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 02:17 PM

we need this. lobbies are totally unplayable on weekends


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#10 fraac

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 12:12 PM

*bump*

 

8/10 lobbies are still 5-0 aidsfests because of failure to implement this simple feature. What's the delay? Do you need help?


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#11 R.E.M.

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 01:03 PM

*bump*

 

8/10 lobbies are still 5-0 aidsfests because of failure to implement this simple feature. What's the delay? Do you need help?

 

We have 5 developers with full time jobs. I haven't seen some of them in days, they're busy people and if you have experience in coding then you should contact the devs and offer your services, I'm sure they'd be grateful.


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#12 TheMattgician

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 06:32 PM

Additionally, the devs are working on getting the full release out (performance tweaks and bugfixing). Once that's done, they'll be able to deal with design.

 

Your idea isn't as simple as it seems: randomizing the players is really easy, but implementing this with a proper design alongside existing lobbies is far easier said than done.

 

In terms of design, there's work being done on making a proper mix system with rankings and everything. If we're going to go through the trouble of having higher class lobbies, might as well do it right.

Additionally, it's not clear simply randomizing will make that big a difference. It seems to me that people are more worried with finding the class they want to play than trying to stack teams. I think this only makes a significant difference for the medic, since he always wants to go on the team with the better heavy/demo and he usually has a chance to pick.



#13 Vortex

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 12:55 PM

#tf2mix is set up where after 12 players join on their respective classes, the teams are randomly assigned. After the teams are assigned, people have a chance to vote for a scramble if the teams seem unfair, where 3 votes will scramble the teams. Scrambling can be done a maximum of 3 times.

 

I feel like a system close or even identical to that would be really good. I'm aware this is an old topic and there might already be progress made, but just throwing in that I agree with the suggestion.


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#14 flip

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 01:33 PM

I do not think this would be a good Idea. Most people play with friends and there aren 't many lobbies up all the time. If they were all "randomizer" lobbies, people would be really pissed.
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#15 The Once and Future King

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 05:02 PM

I do not think this would be a good Idea. Most people play with friends and there aren 't many lobbies up all the time. If they were all "randomizer" lobbies, people would be really pissed.

 

If they are all randomized lobbies then they can make a new lobby that isn't.  If all server owners are making randomized lobbies then that means that randomized lobbies are what the majority of people want.



#16 flip

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 05:54 PM

That's like saying if all sever owners are making highlander lobbies then that means that highlander lobbies are what the majority of people want. It's obviously not that simple.

Edited by flip, 28 May 2014 - 05:57 PM.

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#17 The Once and Future King

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 07:40 PM

That's like saying if all sever owners are making highlander lobbies then that means that highlander lobbies are what the majority of people want. It's obviously not that simple.

 

 

Well, it would be what the majority of server owners want, and if someone wants something else then they should get a server (or go to server.me and borrow a server) and start something else.


Edited by The Once and Future King, 28 May 2014 - 07:54 PM.


#18 flip

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 09:30 PM

This wouldn't even solve 5-0 stomp games. It would be random, and there would still be tons of stomps. That's just how it goes sometimes.


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#19 Vortex

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 07:28 PM

I'm not sure how you can say this wouldn't help stomps. Everyone inadvertently stacks even if they're not bringing friends to do it. I'd say about 75% of the time I can join a center that's nearly full, look at the teams on both sides and know with 100% certainty which team is going to win. Does that influence what team I choose to play on? Of course. Same with most people.

 

I have no clue how it's reasonable to be against a change that's designed to balance teams for players who want closer centers.


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#20 flip

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 09:26 PM

Maybe sometimes, but just yesterday I played a lobby against a ton of people with hundreds of lobbies and thousands of hours. I was almost sure I was gunna lose. we won 4-1. You can't always tell based off numbers.


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