Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -
Scheduled

Adjustment of the Blanket IP Ban Policy



  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 Digresser

Digresser

    Member

  • Users
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts

Posted 10 September 2014 - 10:25 PM

There have been four occurrences this week of players being banned when a different account using the same IP was banned. All four of these players have provided strong evidence that they are not alts of the banned players, but they have not been unbanned. If people can definitively prove that they are not the same person as the banned player (such as old logs of both accounts playing together), is it really fair to punish the player(s) who didn’t break any rules? These players aren’t even afforded a ban thread to learn why they’ve been banned; it’s not until they turn to the unban forums to ask why that they learn the cause of their ban.

 

When this guy (http://rc.tf2center....561198069580309) found out he was banned for 5 days for “lots of negative behavior” he made an unban post to ask why (http://forums.tf2cen...eam-0154657290/)  and was told it was because he had the same IP address as another banned player (whom he confirmed he’d been visiting) and that he’d have to wait out the ban.  He made a polite post later in the same day (http://forums.tf2cen...eam-0154657290/) in which he linked 3 older lobbies he’d played with his banned friend, and asked if proving they were separate players (such as he just had) would be enough to remove his ban. Three days later he was told that proof doesn’t matter, because the ban is in place for a reason.

 

This guy (http://rc.tf2center....561198078375541) got a One Week Create Lobby Ban and then a Permaban for “Telling a guy who reported him to go kill himself a multitude of times” (horrible actions, although dealt with much more harshly than other bans where similar things have occurred, but perhaps there were other issues?). At the time of his ban, however, he had three friends over who were also playing in lobbies, and despite the fact they were all clearly playing in the same lobby together (http://logs.tf/453032) as well as other evidence  which shows they are not alts, these three players (http://rc.tf2center....561198086761045, http://rc.tf2center....561198090343184, http://rc.tf2center....561198081051534 have all been given permabans as well.

 

What concerns me most of all is this quote made by Luop90 “If you ever share an IP, even once, it'll auto-ban the accounts connected with it.” Given how many schools/colleges, computer cafés, and even LAN events use the same IPs, is blanket IP banning without the ability to appeal really the best policy? Heck, imagine two friends who sometimes get to together and do lobbies have a fight that dissolves their friendship. It would be rather easy for the player whose home they'd played at to deliberately get themself banned on TF2C and then change their IP and account and leave the other person (and any others who have used that IP) to deal with the ban.

 

I understand IP banning in order to prevent alts, but I think it’s incredibly unfair to not remove the blanket ban from players who request unbans and provide clear evidence that they are a different players.


  • The Once and Future King and fraac like this

#2 TheMattgician

TheMattgician

    Supreme Poster Overlord

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1210 posts

Posted 10 September 2014 - 10:57 PM

This is one for the devs, the mods don't know that much about how the backend works. Although these people don't deserve to be banned, I don't personally know how to unban them without unbanning the original person.

I'll make sure the devs see this at least in our next meeting.



#3 Digresser

Digresser

    Member

  • Users
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts

Posted 11 September 2014 - 01:19 AM

This is one for the devs, the mods don't know that much about how the backend works. Although these people don't deserve to be banned, I don't personally know how to unban them without unbanning the original person.

I'll make sure the devs see this at least in our next meeting.

 

I'm really glad you'll bring this to their attention. Thank you.



#4 Digresser

Digresser

    Member

  • Users
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts

Posted 11 September 2014 - 07:31 PM


This guy (http://rc.tf2center....561198078375541) got a One Week Create Lobby Ban and then a Permaban for “Telling a guy who reported him to go kill himself a multitude of times” (horrible actions, although dealt with much more harshly than other bans where similar things have occurred, but perhaps there were other issues?).
 

 

 

By the way, if there were other issues, I honestly think they should be listed on his ban thread, because yesterday somebody received a One Day Chat Ban for telling someone to kill themselves once (http://forums.tf2cen...m-upon-another/) whereas the guy above said it three times in a row and got a Permaban. While I certainly don't approve of anyone telling anyone else to kill themselves, the massive punishment discrepancy here is alarming.


Edited by Digresser, 11 September 2014 - 07:31 PM.


#5 The Once and Future King

The Once and Future King

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 443 posts
  • LocationWisconsin

Posted 11 September 2014 - 07:51 PM

 


This guy (http://rc.tf2center....561198078375541) got a One Week Create Lobby Ban and then a Permaban for “Telling a guy who reported him to go kill himself a multitude of times” (horrible actions, although dealt with much more harshly than other bans where similar things have occurred, but perhaps there were other issues?).
 

 

 

By the way, if there were other issues, I honestly think they should be listed on his ban thread, because yesterday somebody received a One Day Chat Ban for telling someone to kill themselves once (http://forums.tf2cen...m-upon-another/) whereas the guy above said it three times in a row and got a Permaban. While I certainly don't approve of anyone telling anyone else to kill themselves, the massive punishment discrepancy here is alarming.

 

 

In general there are a lot of discrepancies in how bans are handed out or not handed out here, this is not the only example.



#6 Luop90

Luop90

    >implying I have a title

  • +Admins
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1919 posts
  • Location127.0.0.1

Steam Profile

Posted 11 September 2014 - 08:40 PM

 


This guy (http://rc.tf2center....561198078375541) got a One Week Create Lobby Ban and then a Permaban for “Telling a guy who reported him to go kill himself a multitude of times” (horrible actions, although dealt with much more harshly than other bans where similar things have occurred, but perhaps there were other issues?).
 

 

 

By the way, if there were other issues, I honestly think they should be listed on his ban thread, because yesterday somebody received a One Day Chat Ban for telling someone to kill themselves once (http://forums.tf2cen...m-upon-another/) whereas the guy above said it three times in a row and got a Permaban. While I certainly don't approve of anyone telling anyone else to kill themselves, the massive punishment discrepancy here is alarming.

 

 

The ban length largely depends on the number of offenses, and what said.

 

Saying "kill yourself" once is different than spamming "KILL URSELF BAD HEAVY FUCK U BALLSUCKER MOTHERFUCKER..." (It continued on after that) in several places.

 

In addition to that, Io Sono Bravo was already on his second offense, since his original ban got moved to a login ban after following swag around and essentially saying the same thing after originally getting banned. Second offense + much more offensive words = Much longer ban.


Why do mathematicians confuse Halloween and Christmas? Because 31 Oct = 25 Dec!

#7 Digresser

Digresser

    Member

  • Users
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts

Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:45 PM

 

 


This guy (http://rc.tf2center....561198078375541) got a One Week Create Lobby Ban and then a Permaban for “Telling a guy who reported him to go kill himself a multitude of times” (horrible actions, although dealt with much more harshly than other bans where similar things have occurred, but perhaps there were other issues?).
 

 

 

By the way, if there were other issues, I honestly think they should be listed on his ban thread, because yesterday somebody received a One Day Chat Ban for telling someone to kill themselves once (http://forums.tf2cen...m-upon-another/) whereas the guy above said it three times in a row and got a Permaban. While I certainly don't approve of anyone telling anyone else to kill themselves, the massive punishment discrepancy here is alarming.

 

 

The ban length largely depends on the number of offenses, and what said.

 

Saying "kill yourself" once is different than spamming "KILL URSELF BAD HEAVY FUCK U BALLSUCKER MOTHERFUCKER..." (It continued on after that) in several places.

 

In addition to that, Io Sono Bravo was already on his second offense, since his original ban got moved to a login ban after following swag around and essentially saying the same thing after originally getting banned. Second offense + much more offensive words = Much longer ban.

 

 

Thank you for clearing that up. It does make a much bigger difference knowing it was more than just what was shown on the ban thread.



#8 TheMattgician

TheMattgician

    Supreme Poster Overlord

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1210 posts

Posted 14 September 2014 - 04:06 PM

The dev team will be working on enabling a profile sensitive unban, if there is enough evidence that the people are not one and the same.



#9 Digresser

Digresser

    Member

  • Users
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts

Posted 14 September 2014 - 11:09 PM

The dev team will be working on enabling a profile sensitive unban, if there is enough evidence that the people are not one and the same.

 

That's awesome and very fair of you guys.



#10 ninjaMooCow

ninjaMooCow

    Former TF2C staff

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2225 posts
  • LocationOhio

Posted 15 September 2014 - 11:52 AM

Lately there is a lot of scrutiny on ban periods and fairness and consistency.

 

I need to remind folks that this is not a legal system, and the staff are doing their best based on guidelines as much as possible.  TF2C staff come from all sorts of different backgrounds and have different opinions on what severity which rule broken amounts to.  The focus here needs to be on the rule breaking and the effect on the community at large, not on the punishment. 



#11 The Once and Future King

The Once and Future King

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 443 posts
  • LocationWisconsin

Posted 15 September 2014 - 01:13 PM

Lately there is a lot of scrutiny on ban periods and fairness and consistency.

 

I need to remind folks that this is not a legal system, and the staff are doing their best based on guidelines as much as possible.  TF2C staff come from all sorts of different backgrounds and have different opinions on what severity which rule broken amounts to.  The focus here needs to be on the rule breaking and the effect on the community at large, not on the punishment. 

 

Well there should really be some focus on the punishment when the punishment is being dealt to people not breaking the rules.  It's also kind of ridiculous when two people commuting the same offense can get drastically different results from a ban thread (on the same day) by having two different mods reviewing them.

 

--Oh and half of the "rule breakers" don't really affect the community all that much since they are being banned for trivial things .... "whhaa whaa whaa player A called me a name pls ban them."


Edited by The Once and Future King, 15 September 2014 - 01:16 PM.


#12 ninjaMooCow

ninjaMooCow

    Former TF2C staff

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2225 posts
  • LocationOhio

Posted 16 September 2014 - 02:29 AM


--Oh and half of the "rule breakers" don't really affect the community all that much since they are being banned for trivial things .... "whhaa whaa whaa player A called me a name pls ban them."

 

Your criticism is not well placed.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Scheduled