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Demoknighting in Highlander


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#1 icy

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 05:08 AM

Sorry for no pictures for the weapons. Image post restriction is being a giant dick. Please don't post anything that says stuff like "But you shouldn't be Demoknighting anyways."

 

 

First off, Tide Turner is banned in 6s and 4v4, so Demoknight is useless there. Also, this guide is for KOTH and sometimes CP. Demoknighting on any other gamemode is a big no no.

 

 

 

Introduction-

 

Ugh, the usual. Dominating the entire team as Demo. I just want to change up some stuff to make their medic even angrier! 

 

Welcome to my guide for Demoknighting in Highlander! Here I'll be teaching you how to be an effective Demoknight, and pleasing your team so they don't report you for being a so called "troll". I'll also be showing you the weapons for Demoknighting, positioning, and some general tips.

 

 

Weapons-

Primary

 

The Grenade Launcher

 

 

Also called the best primary for Demoman, but you are a Demoknight, and you want to pull off the maximum damage, right? I would recommend using this weapon if you can't aim with the Loch, or time with the Cannon. What's good about this weapon is that unlike the Cannon, it explodes on contact, and unlike the Loch, you still have a chance to hit people with the pipe, even if you miss.

 

Rating - 6.5

 

 

The Loch-n-Load

 

 

This is the weapon I prefer. What's good about this weapon is that because you are a Demoknight, you have to sacrifice your Stickies, arguably the best weapon in the game, and how this weapon makes up for that is the damage increase and speed. If you can aim, this is the weapon for you, since it always does 100+ damage. The downside is that the pipe "shatters" on the ground, meaning that if you miss, you have no chance to do any damage.

 

Rating - 8

 

 

The Loose Cannon

 

Oh boy, this weapon is fun to use! I would rate this weapon as the best, since you can do the same damage as the Loch, if you can time, it has (weaker) rollers, and you can push back enemies, just to annoy them! The special thing about this, is the ability to Double-Donk. To achieve such Double-Donking, you must be able to time your fuse to hit the enemy, and hit him again with the same cannon in 0.5 seconds. Sounds tough, right? Don't worry, because if you practice, you can pull them off with ease. 

 

Rating - 9

 

 

The "Slot Takers" (Boots and BASE Jumper)

 

Even though you are a Demoknight, you still need to protect yourself and damage the enemies. These 2 (I said 2 because both boots have the same stats) are essentially useless, unless you want to Troll Demoknight, which isn't something that is pleased in the community.

 

Rating - 3 & 2.5

 

 

Shields-

 

Tide Turner

 

It's a fact that this is the best shield, honestly. I mean look at it! It has everything a Demoknight needs! Full turning control, Charge instantly fills back up 100% after a kill while charging! Not to mention, 25% resistance to fire and explosive! No reason not to use it!

 

Rating - 10

 

 

The "Slot Takers" (Splendid Screen and Chargin' Targe)

 

 

Honestly, these shields are trash compared to the Tide Turner. Splendid Screen gives the ability to do impact damage at any range, and the Chargin' Targe has better resistance and immunity to fire. No reason to use these, just go with the Tide Turner!

 

Rating - 2 & 1

 

 

Swords-

 

Claidheamh Mòr

 

Honestly, the best melee for Demoknight in Highlander. You can charge longer and increase the crit time, so you can get those Med picks easier. You also have -15hp, though it's pretty negligible. 

 

Rating - 8.5

 

 

Caber

 

Another really good choice for Demoknight. This weapon is really powerful in small maps, such as Viaduct, as you can charge, get a crit caber on 5 enemies, charge back to spawn, and do it again. This weapon explodes on hit with an enemy, an enemy building, the ground, and the walls. You also take 100hp if it explodes.

 

Rating - 8

 

 

Eyelander & Reskins

 

The Eyelander has a unique ability. You start off with -25hp, but after every kill, you gain +15 more hp and 7.5% more speed, which caps at 4 heads, with a grand total of 210hp and speed slightly slower than Scout. Use this if you are great at charging, killing, and staying alive after that.

 

Rating - 7.5

 

 

Half-Zatoichi

 

Good in pubs, bad in Highlander. Well, not really bad. You gain all your health back if you kill someone with this weapon, but if you miss, you are stuck with this weapon until you kill someone.

 

Rating - 6

 

 

Persian Persuader

 

Not really good. Since you are Demoknighting in Highlander, you need a primary weapon, and with this sword, you can't pickup ammo, unless you want to run back to the resupply. Faster charge refill, but not worth it.

 

Rating - 4

 

 

Scotsman's Skullcutter

 

Even though you get to do 20% more damage, you move slower, and that's pretty bad, since HL is all about time.

 

Rating - 4.5

 

 

Gameplay-

 

As a Demoknight, you will always be moving, and constantly asking your team to call the med, and a group of people if you are using the caber. You will also need the constant help of your team to keep the Pyro down, to avoid getting airblast when charging to get a pick. The main targets you will be picking from order are: Medic, Demo, Engineer, and Heavy. When charging for any class, be sure to take a long route for a guaranteed crit and a chance that no one will call you out. Be sure to trimp while charging off a slant. Trimping is where you jump before charging off a slant, which causes you to fly! Since you are using the Tide Turner, be sure to abuse the turning control, since you can trick an enemy to thinking that you are escaping, but you can always turn back around and chop their head off with a nice crit! Use your primary, too! It's there for a reason, and you should not always rely on your sword. Scouts bothering you? No worries, just predict where they are going to go, tilt your mouse to the direction slightly, and shoot! Also, be aware that shooting at the head with the pipes isn't going to put out the maximum damage. Be sure to aim for the body and legs! Also for the rollout, be sure to charge to the fastest way to mid, so you can start to spam your pipes. That's it for now, I may add some more stuff to this guide. Here is a link to my demo of Demoknighting in Viaduct, where I did the 3rd most damage: http://www30.zippysh...33321/file.html Here are the Logs: http://logs.tf/41461...561198084919260


Edited by icy, 16 August 2014 - 05:10 AM.


#2 ManSkirtDude101

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 01:46 PM

I don't see his being viable at all for cp since cp in hl is all about stalemates and chokes and you won't be able to get around the chokes without getting picked off by a pick class. Also in hl you're a demo your job is not to be a pick class you are a damage bot with your combo without that damage especially in koth where you say demoknight is best it can turn into less frags from your team because you are putting a lot less aoe damage to the team.

Edited by ManSkirtDude101, 25 September 2014 - 01:46 PM.

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#3 icy

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Posted 28 September 2014 - 03:20 PM

I don't see his being viable at all for cp since cp in hl is all about stalemates and chokes and you won't be able to get around the chokes without getting picked off by a pick class. Also in hl you're a demo your job is not to be a pick class you are a damage bot with your combo without that damage especially in koth where you say demoknight is best it can turn into less frags from your team because you are putting a lot less aoe damage to the team.

It's sometimes viable, like on mid, where you can get a few easy picks. Of course you have to go vanilla demo on last. I forgot to mention that demoknighting is extremely viable on small koth maps, such as viaduct. View the logs I posted. 


Edited by icy, 28 September 2014 - 03:23 PM.


#4 ManSkirtDude101

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Posted 28 September 2014 - 09:40 PM

 

I don't see his being viable at all for cp since cp in hl is all about stalemates and chokes and you won't be able to get around the chokes without getting picked off by a pick class. Also in hl you're a demo your job is not to be a pick class you are a damage bot with your combo without that damage especially in koth where you say demoknight is best it can turn into less frags from your team because you are putting a lot less aoe damage to the team.

It's sometimes viable, like on mid, where you can get a few easy picks. Of course you have to go vanilla demo on last. I forgot to mention that demoknighting is extremely viable on small koth maps, such as viaduct. View the logs I posted. 

 

Looks like you were not being counted at all.


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#5 Luop90

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 12:39 AM

I personally think that all shields are a direct downgrade from the sticky launcher, but that doesn't mean it can't be viable. I've seen it be used on viaduct all the time if one team is winning, and it's generally someone having a care free fun time.
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#6 TheMattgician

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 03:04 AM

Well I can see a shield being run for one life to get a pick.



#7 I.E.D.

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 04:26 AM

Just throwing it out there that you failed to mention the scullcutter's increased range.  Most people aren't aware of how ridiculously broken (in your favor) the hitbox on that thing is. 

Also if you charge for a crit with it you instakill soldiers and any overhealed class but heavy, so the 20% dmg bonus is really like a 70% damage bonus counting crits.

And lastly charging arguably negates the speed impediment.  Nobody really uses this weapon so nobody knows how to fight against it, and will often be caught off guard when you chop their head off from near-outside flamethrower range.  It's really fucked.



#8 icy

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 01:16 AM

 

 

I don't see his being viable at all for cp since cp in hl is all about stalemates and chokes and you won't be able to get around the chokes without getting picked off by a pick class. Also in hl you're a demo your job is not to be a pick class you are a damage bot with your combo without that damage especially in koth where you say demoknight is best it can turn into less frags from your team because you are putting a lot less aoe damage to the team.

It's sometimes viable, like on mid, where you can get a few easy picks. Of course you have to go vanilla demo on last. I forgot to mention that demoknighting is extremely viable on small koth maps, such as viaduct. View the logs I posted. 

 

Looks like you were not being counted at all.

 

Never thought this thread would get any more than two posts.

 

Anyways, if you tell your team to keep their Pyro down (because of airblast), constantly ask your team for the updated location of their Medic, and be aggressive with your shield, you will be helpful to your team and not get immediately repped. I also failed to mention to not be demoknight full time. Demoknighting is like offclassing in Highlander. It could be really helpful to go demoknight at one time, but not on other times.



#9 enstage

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 06:02 AM

Well I can see a shield being run for one life to get a pick.

Well I can see a shield being run for one life to get a pick.


Not if you have the tide turner, every time you kill someone during a charge you full charge back, if you have the Half Zatoichi you get health back to. You can then either go for another pick or charge straight back outta there.

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#10 kyumin2lee

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 06:38 AM

Don't do it kids.

In the same way people get vote kicked out for being a spy in mvm, which can be very effective,

You will get insta-repped out for being a demo knight in highlander, which can also be effective.

Just the way life is kids :(

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#11 enstage

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 11:31 AM

Don't do it kids.
In the same way people get vote kicked out for being a spy in mvm, which can be very effective,
You will get insta-repped out for being a demo knight in highlander, which can also be effective.
Just the way life is kids :(


This was mentioned earlier, if you play demo night the whole game you should be kicked. But if you simply change to him once or twice, it's basically like offclassing in 6s.

Of course you would have to run this by your team first so they know what's happening.

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#12 R.E.M.

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 02:31 PM

Demoknighting might be viable in your average highlander lobby but I can guarentee you that if you tried that in any HL official or scrim you would get shut down pretty hard mostly by sentries, pyros and heavies - or basically anything that has knockback. Demoknight is pretty easy to counter if your combo and flank are organised - something HL lobbies never are. I would not recommend going demoknight for even 1-2 lives as it severely gimps your damage output as demo which is the entire reason demo is such an important class. Without that sticky spam and/or reliable pipe aim a demoknight is basically a gimicky pick class who will have a small chance of maybe getting one to two important pick(s) before dieing and becoming useless to the rest of the team.


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#13 enstage

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 08:22 PM

Demoknighting might be viable in your average highlander lobby but I can guarentee you that if you tried that in any HL official or scrim you would get shut down pretty hard mostly by sentries, pyros and heavies - or basically anything that has knockback. Demoknight is pretty easy to counter if your combo and flank are organised - something HL lobbies never are. I would not recommend going demoknight for even 1-2 lives as it severely gimps your damage output as demo which is the entire reason demo is such an important class. Without that sticky spam and/or reliable pipe aim a demoknight is basically a gimicky pick class who will have a small chance of maybe getting one to two important pick(s) before dieing and becoming useless to the rest of the team.


It obvious you know a lot more than me on this topic. I still believe demo knight can be used successfully, thought. My loadout would be something along the lines of: loch n load, tide turner, half zatoichi and the loch n load can be switch for the regular grenade launcher.

This allows you to have a resonably high damage output, but also gives you the ability swing out at any over extenders, maybe take a charge at the medic if your close enough, which I can guantee you will be if you charge forward to get an over extender.

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#14 ManSkirtDude101

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 12:55 AM

 

Demoknighting might be viable in your average highlander lobby but I can guarentee you that if you tried that in any HL official or scrim you would get shut down pretty hard mostly by sentries, pyros and heavies - or basically anything that has knockback. Demoknight is pretty easy to counter if your combo and flank are organised - something HL lobbies never are. I would not recommend going demoknight for even 1-2 lives as it severely gimps your damage output as demo which is the entire reason demo is such an important class. Without that sticky spam and/or reliable pipe aim a demoknight is basically a gimicky pick class who will have a small chance of maybe getting one to two important pick(s) before dieing and becoming useless to the rest of the team.


It obvious you know a lot more than me on this topic. I still believe demo knight can be used successfully, thought. My loadout would be something along the lines of: loch n load, tide turner, half zatoichi and the loch n load can be switch for the regular grenade launcher.

This allows you to have a resonably high damage output, but also gives you the ability swing out at any over extenders, maybe take a charge at the medic if your close enough, which I can guantee you will be if you charge forward to get an over extender.

 

high damage output given too one person is not as good as high damage output to many people using stickies. Demo shouldn't be a pick class for a reason he needs to does aoe damage or you just lose the purpose of why demo is good. As demo with stickies you give damage to hopefully have your team take advantage of the damage. While your demo knight you are glass, you are useless since usually once you get a pick your dead because everyone will focus you.


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#15 enstage

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 02:20 AM

Demoknighting might be viable in your average highlander lobby but I can guarentee you that if you tried that in any HL official or scrim you would get shut down pretty hard mostly by sentries, pyros and heavies - or basically anything that has knockback. Demoknight is pretty easy to counter if your combo and flank are organised - something HL lobbies never are. I would not recommend going demoknight for even 1-2 lives as it severely gimps your damage output as demo which is the entire reason demo is such an important class. Without that sticky spam and/or reliable pipe aim a demoknight is basically a gimicky pick class who will have a small chance of maybe getting one to two important pick(s) before dieing and becoming useless to the rest of the team.




It obvious you know a lot more than me on this topic. I still believe demo knight can be used successfully, thought. My loadout would be something along the lines of: loch n load, tide turner, half zatoichi and the loch n load can be switch for the regular grenade launcher.
This allows you to have a resonably high damage output, but also gives you the ability swing out at any over extenders, maybe take a charge at the medic if your close enough, which I can guantee you will be if you charge forward to get an over extender.
high damage output given too one person is not as good as high damage output to many people using stickies. Demo shouldn't be a pick class for a reason he needs to does aoe damage or you just lose the purpose of why demo is good. As demo with stickies you give damage to hopefully have your team take advantage of the damage. While your demo knight you are glass, you are useless since usually once you get a pick your dead because everyone will focus you.

This is why I see this as being a very situational off class. Off classes in the first place are not optimised for their surroundings, for example in 6s, you could say that the sniper is absolutely useless - basically a sitting duck than the soldiers could easily destroy, bu that's not the case, he is used in many situations. That's what I mean with the demo knight, he could be used as a past attempt to win the round, getting a pick and then dying, giving your team an advantage for the final push, especially if that pick was someone important - also with my suggested loadout it is VERY easy to get multiple picks, returning to full health and charge every time you do so.

This is just my opinion, I would like to give demo knight a go in a lobby where the teams are very unbalanced or something similar to that. I'll post here with the results.

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#16 ManSkirtDude101

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 01:38 PM

 

 

 

Demoknighting might be viable in your average highlander lobby but I can guarentee you that if you tried that in any HL official or scrim you would get shut down pretty hard mostly by sentries, pyros and heavies - or basically anything that has knockback. Demoknight is pretty easy to counter if your combo and flank are organised - something HL lobbies never are. I would not recommend going demoknight for even 1-2 lives as it severely gimps your damage output as demo which is the entire reason demo is such an important class. Without that sticky spam and/or reliable pipe aim a demoknight is basically a gimicky pick class who will have a small chance of maybe getting one to two important pick(s) before dieing and becoming useless to the rest of the team.




It obvious you know a lot more than me on this topic. I still believe demo knight can be used successfully, thought. My loadout would be something along the lines of: loch n load, tide turner, half zatoichi and the loch n load can be switch for the regular grenade launcher.
This allows you to have a resonably high damage output, but also gives you the ability swing out at any over extenders, maybe take a charge at the medic if your close enough, which I can guantee you will be if you charge forward to get an over extender.
high damage output given too one person is not as good as high damage output to many people using stickies. Demo shouldn't be a pick class for a reason he needs to does aoe damage or you just lose the purpose of why demo is good. As demo with stickies you give damage to hopefully have your team take advantage of the damage. While your demo knight you are glass, you are useless since usually once you get a pick your dead because everyone will focus you.

This is why I see this as being a very situational off class. Off classes in the first place are not optimised for their surroundings, for example in 6s, you could say that the sniper is absolutely useless - basically a sitting duck than the soldiers could easily destroy, bu that's not the case, he is used in many situations. That's what I mean with the demo knight, he could be used as a past attempt to win the round, getting a pick and then dying, giving your team an advantage for the final push, especially if that pick was someone important - also with my suggested loadout it is VERY easy to get multiple picks, returning to full health and charge every time you do so.

This is just my opinion, I would like to give demo knight a go in a lobby where the teams are very unbalanced or something similar to that. I'll post here with the results.

 

exactly what you said there you couldve won the match anyways if you are on the right side going demo knight is not gonna effect the outcome.


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#17 tonberry

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 10:51 AM

Hello TF2 Friendarinos

It has come to my attention that you do not understanderino the unlimited power weilded by the demonighterino

As a professional demonighterino myself, I can confirm the this is a valid strateginerino.

Here are some logerinos of my Ham Champerino loadout (Ham Stick, Targe and Loch n Loaderino )

http://logs.tf/48140...561197961456343

http://logs.tf/47431...561197961456343

http://logs.tf/47310...561197961456343

http://logs.tf/46355...561197961456343

http://livelogs.ozfo....com/view/31926

I many hope this will clear up any problemerino

Thank you,
Disco Donut Ham Champ Tonberry.


PS: Please no copy pasterino



#18 Yahiamice

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 09:55 PM

I like how you're "obligating" everyone to choose the tide turner by saying that the other ones are absolute trash

But let's be honest, basic charge gives you about half resistance to soldiers,other demos and pyros,and as a horrible experienced demoman, those are the most trouble-makers you'd ever experience.



#19 enstage

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 05:17 AM

Demoknighting might be viable in your average highlander lobby but I can guarentee you that if you tried that in any HL official or scrim you would get shut down pretty hard mostly by sentries, pyros and heavies - or basically anything that has knockback. Demoknight is pretty easy to counter if your combo and flank are organised - something HL lobbies never are. I would not recommend going demoknight for even 1-2 lives as it severely gimps your damage output as demo which is the entire reason demo is such an important class. Without that sticky spam and/or reliable pipe aim a demoknight is basically a gimicky pick class who will have a small chance of maybe getting one to two important pick(s) before dieing and becoming useless to the rest of the team.


It obvious you know a lot more than me on this topic. I still believe demo knight can be used successfully, thought. My loadout would be something along the lines of: loch n load, tide turner, half zatoichi and the loch n load can be switch for the regular grenade launcher.
This allows you to have a resonably high damage output, but also gives you the ability swing out at any over extenders, maybe take a charge at the medic if your close enough, which I can guantee you will be if you charge forward to get an over extender.
high damage output given too one person is not as good as high damage output to many people using stickies. Demo shouldn't be a pick class for a reason he needs to does aoe damage or you just lose the purpose of why demo is good. As demo with stickies you give damage to hopefully have your team take advantage of the damage. While your demo knight you are glass, you are useless since usually once you get a pick your dead because everyone will focus you.

This is why I see this as being a very situational off class. Off classes in the first place are not optimised for their surroundings, for example in 6s, you could say that the sniper is absolutely useless - basically a sitting duck than the soldiers could easily destroy, bu that's not the case, he is used in many situations. That's what I mean with the demo knight, he could be used as a past attempt to win the round, getting a pick and then dying, giving your team an advantage for the final push, especially if that pick was someone important - also with my suggested loadout it is VERY easy to get multiple picks, returning to full health and charge every time you do so.
This is just my opinion, I would like to give demo knight a go in a lobby where the teams are very unbalanced or something similar to that. I'll post here with the results.
exactly what you said there you couldve won the match anyways if you are on the right side going demo knight is not gonna effect the outcome.

Your not getting the point, I want to do this in an unbalanced lobby due to the fact that I would be insta-kicked otherwise.

I like how you're "obligating" everyone to choose the tide turner by saying that the other ones are absolute trash
But let's be honest, basic charge gives you about half resistance to soldiers,other demos and pyros,and as a horrible experienced demoman, those are the most trouble-makers you'd ever experience.


If you referring to me..? I am not, I am merely suggesting the possibilities if you were to use the tide turner.

Hello TF2 Friendarinos
It has come to my attention that you do not understanderino the unlimited power weilded by the demonighterino
As a professional demonighterino myself, I can confirm the this is a valid strateginerino.
Here are some logerinos of my Ham Champerino loadout (Ham Stick, Targe and Loch n Loaderino )
http://logs.tf/48140...561197961456343
http://logs.tf/47431...561197961456343
http://logs.tf/47310...561197961456343
http://logs.tf/46355...561197961456343
http://livelogs.ozfo....com/view/31926
I many hope this will clear up any problemerino
Thank you,
Disco Donut Ham Champ Tonberry.
PS: Please no copy pasterino


OMG Tonberry actually posted something...!

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#20 icy

icy

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 07:21 PM

I like how you're "obligating" everyone to choose the tide turner by saying that the other ones are absolute trash

But let's be honest, basic charge gives you about half resistance to soldiers,other demos and pyros,and as a horrible experienced demoman, those are the most trouble-makers you'd ever experience.

You should choose it over the other shields. The turning makes up for the resistance, as you can dodge the projectiles quicker.






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