14 replies to this topic

[lime]

Make mumble use mandatory in servers with a high % of reserved slots on one team.

Edited by TheMattgician, 07 December 2014 - 10:57 PM.
Original Title: "In an effort to minimise rolls..."

[TheMattgician]

TF2C doesn't like to force things on people, but I would like a strong suggestion or Mumble usage in these situations. If a team is scrimming on TF2C, they want the other team to communicate for a decent game, but they don't set Mumble because they know their team will be in Mumble.

[The Once and Future King]

Mumble usage isn't even mandatory in mumble required lobbies.  They don't care about mumble usage here.

[Foxy]

Mumble usage isn't even mandatory in mumble required lobbies.  They don't care about mumble usage here.

 

Yes, we do. Please stop assuming you know what we're thinking.

[lime]

 Yes sorry the problem here is just with my chosen word order, I feel the same and most of the time like to just play with some music on which is a good thing about the delineation they have going. Essentially I just mean make the lobby set to "You are expected to join Mumble" as a rule when a large percentage of one team is reserved, as this generally does draw more players into the mumble.

 I don't want anything forced on people either, but I think it should be indicated somewhere that this is considered bad practice. It would help to foster a more competitive environment and can only help guide more people into comp TF2, which does seem to be their aim, looking at the site's strapline.

 

TF2C doesn't like to force things on people, but I would like a strong suggestion or Mumble usage in these situations.

 

 I do think they care, they have implemented a system for it and I believe someone else has already made a suggestion for implementing a response to mumble non-compliance within the system, but currently the response to not following it is something that needs to develop in the community - I would have assumed (perhaps wrongly), like they might have done, that the response of the general user population would be enough to tow the line.

 

Mumble usage isn't even mandatory in mumble required lobbies.  They don't care about mumble usage here.

Edited by lime, 31 July 2014 - 03:37 PM.

[The Once and Future King]

 

Mumble usage isn't even mandatory in mumble required lobbies.  They don't care about mumble usage here.

 

Yes, we do. Please stop assuming you know what we're thinking.

 

 

You refuse to punish people for not joining mumble.  you'll hand out site bans for minor insults to players that shouldn't even be that big of a deal but won't even give temp bans for people ruining games by not being in mumble when they join lobbies that have the require mumble box checked.  Telling people that you can !rep them knowing full well that most lobbies are filled with people who are either too impatient to wait for a sub or take a "it's only a lobby" attitude.  Maybe that's my problem, maybe I should stop thinking of TF2C as a competitive setting but rather "only a lobby" or "glorified Pub".

 

 

Oh, your going to incorporate Mumbility, a reliability% for how well people join mumble ... yeah I'm sure that'll work just as well as the current reliability thing that almost no one cares about (and about 97% of people don't even bother setting restrictions on).

Edited by The Once and Future King, 31 July 2014 - 03:46 PM.

[TheMattgician]

Crossed arms, back turned... a great big frown on his face ... yup! TOaFK is pouting again!

Seriously though, I don't know what you are trying to achieve by saying "You don't want people to join Mumble do you" again and again. You might not realize that developing anything takes a lot more time that anyone would want, not to mention all the other things that have to be done. It's nice to think that the devs are blind and stupid while you know better, but it turns out to be slightly more complicated.

[/rant]

 

The point here isn't about non-mumble compliance. Operating under the assumption that when Mumble is required, people join mumble, I think we should indeed suggest lobby leaders creating lobbies with all of BLU reserved.

To do this, I was thinking of a pop-up box pointing at the Mumble requirement (which would automatically check the box) saying "Golly, it sure looks like you want to scrim your team against TF2Center! How about requiring Mumble better practice?". While the default would then be to have Mumble required, the leader can uncheck the box if he really wants to.

[Swagni]

There is no point in making mumble mandatory in specific situations as long as it does not even work under normal conditions. I had mumble required lobbies with 1-2 people on both team in mumble. That's just horrible. I used to kick everyone who didn't join mumble. But I had to find out that this is actually against the rules so I can't do this anymore. And as mentioned before, reporting people not in mumble does not work, when its like 80% of the people just not giving a shit about joining mumble on specific lobbies. 

 

My request: Give more responsibility to the leader. Allow the leader to kick people not joining mumble until there is a better solution available. I had really clear situations where mumble was required, I asked the player in the chat "Can you please join mumble anon?" and he responds "no its just a lobby".

 

And I can find this kind of attitude in ALMOST EVERY LOBBY. It's not an exception or anything, thats the standard. 

[The Once and Future King]

 I used to kick everyone who didn't join mumble. But I had to find out that this is actually against the rules so I can't do this anymore. And as mentioned before, reporting people not in mumble does not work, when its like 80% of the people just not giving a shit about joining mumble on specific lobbies. 

 

As a lobby leader I've kicked many people for not being in mumble.  To me it is a valid reason since that is the only way to get them replace when my team doesn't care enough to !rep them, and until I can start reporting them in the forums to get them warnings/bans I will continue to do so.  It's either that or if my team refuses to !rep someone not in mumble and starts the lobby without all 9 players in mumble just closing the lobby and I don't consider closing the lobby to be a good option.

[Swagni]

 

 I used to kick everyone who didn't join mumble. But I had to find out that this is actually against the rules so I can't do this anymore. And as mentioned before, reporting people not in mumble does not work, when its like 80% of the people just not giving a shit about joining mumble on specific lobbies. 

 

As a lobby leader I've kicked many people for not being in mumble.  To me it is a valid reason since that is the only way to get them replace when my team doesn't care enough to !rep them, and until I can start reporting them in the forums to get them warnings/bans I will continue to do so.  It's either that or if my team refuses to !rep someone not in mumble and starts the lobby without all 9 players in mumble just closing the lobby and I don't consider closing the lobby to be a good option.

 

 

I completely agree with you. It's just that I'm a little afraid of kicking people. Because if they report you on the forums and you might have no evidence that he was not on mumble you might get banned for RCON usage. So whenever they clearly refuse in chat I'm just kicking them. But I had a lot of people not responding at all to mumble requests.

 

I think a rule or an official statement by an admin would be cool to know how to deal with this. Is it fine if we kick people not joining mumble? Will we get banned if we do so? For me the mumble topic is the only thing that really ruins my tf2center experience. I don't want to play lobbies without mumble, that's why I create my own and try to enforce it. 

Edited by wogi, 01 August 2014 - 12:17 PM.

[The Once and Future King]

I completely agree with you. It's just that I'm a little afraid of kicking people. Because if they report you on the forums and you might have no evidence that he was not on mumble you might get banned for RCON usage. So whenever they clearly refuse in chat I'm just kicking them. But I had a lot of people not responding at all to mumble requests.

 

I think a rule or an official statement by an admin would be cool to know how to deal with this. Is it fine if we kick people not joining mumble? Will we get banned if we do so? For me the mumble topic is the only thing that really ruins my tf2center experience. I don't want to play lobbies without mumble, that's why I create my own and try to enforce it. 

 

 

I've been in lobby's with Admins who have stated several times that anyone not in mumble would be kicked.  Now I can't say I've actually seen an admin do it because the one or two times I have seen him tell people this everyone has been in mumble.  The fact that he claims he will do so though leads me to believe it should be okay for the rest of us too, maybe the key is to make sure we state in our lobby description or in the chat while waiting for the lobby to fill a warning that anyone not in mumble will be kicked (Not that they should need that warning since the mumble icon clearly indicates they are required to be in mumble.)

Edited by The Once and Future King, 01 August 2014 - 12:24 PM.

[Neidii]

There is a huge problem with people not joining mumble and that is that the whole idea of teamwork falls apart when people type "oh it's just a lobby/ I don't want to" when you ask them to join. I only play mumble required lobbies and very often half the people are missing. It's very annoying and I wish there was some kind of automatic punishment for people not joining mumble in a mumble required lobby. Maybe if there was some sort of reliability loss or similar people's attitudes would change a bit and they would start caring more about what kind of lobby they have joined. Being in mumble with 2 people when we are supposed to be 9 is ruining the experience. Sure I could just scrim with my team if I want that full mumble experience but then again that requirement on the lobby is there for a reason and it annoys me greatly that so many people ignore it. If I want to to talk I join a lobby with the mumble symbol and I used to assume that's why people joined as well. I was wrong.

 

I like talking with people and making sure me and them know what's going on during the lobby. Maybe an hour autoban from lobbies would make people care more. 

[ryan]

 It's very annoying and I wish there was some kind of automatic punishment for people not joining mumble in a mumble required lobby. Maybe if there was some sort of reliability loss or similar people's attitudes would change a bit and they would start caring more about what kind of lobby they have joined. 

 

In my opinion a reliability feature for mumble would be a complete waste of the devs time, plus making every player join mumble seems near impossible with new players not downloading mumble and joining mumble required lobbies without even knowing what mumble is.  Even with the autojoin feature it isn't hard for players just to disconnect from the mumble and rejoin theirs.  Even with a 1 hour cooldown on players who don't join the mumble, how would it even work for starters, is mumble capable of checking if specific players are in the server and then sending the information back to tf2center.  

 

What could be possible is that use the way that tf2pickup has to report players, by going back onto the pickup page and giving a report button next to the players name that opens into a list of things to be reported for ie: griefing/trolling, no communication, permanent offclassing, not being in mumble, ragequitting, afking.  So different punishments can be given for different offenses.

[jayserp]

Something is in the works, which is the users 'Mumbility' or Mumble Reliability. As always, the issue is in ensuring the system is reliable. We learnt from our current reliability system that any glitches, no matter how small, causes the numbers to be way off, and honest people get black marks next to their name.

 

All the data we need is being stored to do this, we just need to confirm and ensure that we catch every event 99.99% of the time. Anything less and people will notice odd things...

[Mother Tereza]

Since Mumbilty has been implemented long time ago and already has proved its efficiency, I think this topic is no more relevant and can be considered as completed.