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Dont allow people to make lobbies using old versions of maps



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#1 kkkkkkkyle

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 09:44 PM

I really doubt anyone actually tries to make a lobby with cp_snakewater(as opposed to cp_snakewater_final1) when it is not the current version of a default map. In the one I just played someone was unable to join because they didnt have it downloaded(why would they its old?). Also newer players might be confused and it serves no purpose as every league and pub uses the current version.

 

Ive seen lobbies like this for gully, snake and viaduct.


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#2 TheMattgician

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 07:44 AM

A whitelist doesn't cut it because we want people to try new maps. Blacklist doesn't work either because it's too easy to miss one.

So I suppose that you'd have to reject lobbies using a map containing the word "snakewater" that aren't "cp_snakewater_final1".



#3 LastTalon

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 08:24 AM

I actually don't agree with this idea. I think there are legitimate reasons to play other versions of the maps. Or even in cases that aren't legitimate I don't think it makes sense to prevent people from running them. Take koth_pro_viaduct_rc3 and koth_pro_viaduct_rc4, for example. Many people run rc4 now, but many still run rc3. I have them both downloaded. I still see people run old versions of snakewater as well because there are some things in them that are different from the final version.

 

Overall I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with running old versions of maps. You can always point out to the lobby leader that its an old version, but as I said, they may very well know that. If someone wants to use their own server and their own server time to run the old map, and people are joining the lobby for it and willing to play it I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

 

As a side note, however, as I know there are a lot of less experienced players who may just be starting out, or may have little interest in the maps being played, I think it would be beneficial if there were a marker for more common maps with different versions stating if it is the most recent version or not right on the lobby. I'm not sure if this is desirable, as it would need to be updated a lot as new versions of maps come out, and there will always be obscure maps and the possibility of omitting maps. I don't think, though, that it would be very much more difficult than displaying an image of the map for common maps as is already done.


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#4 FromZero2Hero

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 09:24 AM

There are reasons why they get a newer version. For example red and blue side of viaduct_rc3 aren't completly mirrored. viaduct_rc4 fixed that. I agree not to completly remove them from the list but if people wanna run an older version, give them a warning that there's a newer (and balanced) version available?



#5 kKaltUu

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 11:47 AM

There are reasons why they get a newer version. For example red and blue side of viaduct_rc3 aren't completly mirrored. viaduct_rc4 fixed that. I agree not to completly remove them from the list but if people wanna run an older version, give them a warning that there's a newer (and balanced) version available?

How would you know there's a new version? There aren't any standards in naming conventions for maps. Unless there's someone that has a list of all newest versions of maps it's rather pointless to try.



#6 FromZero2Hero

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 12:08 PM

 

There are reasons why they get a newer version. For example red and blue side of viaduct_rc3 aren't completly mirrored. viaduct_rc4 fixed that. I agree not to completly remove them from the list but if people wanna run an older version, give them a warning that there's a newer (and balanced) version available?

How would you know there's a new version? There aren't any standards in naming conventions for maps. Unless there's someone that has a list of all newest versions of maps it's rather pointless to try.

 

Well, I'm kinda talking about the stock maps or the most popular comp maps that are currently played the most. I know it's kinda hard to keep track of all maps.

- Viaduct

- Process

- Barnblitz

- Snakewater

- Gullywash

- Swiftwater (well, ugc version recommended?)

And for some maps, you know pretty quickly if there's a new version (if there ever will be a new version) :

- Metalworks

- Croissant

- Coalplant 

- Borneo

- ...

 



#7 LastTalon

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 05:59 PM

How would you know there's a new version? There aren't any standards in naming conventions for maps. Unless there's someone that has a list of all newest versions of maps it's rather pointless to try.

 
Actually naming conventions tend to be pretty standard for maps as far as I can tell. _a for alpha, so _a1 _a2 _a3. _b for beta _b1 _b2 _b3. _rc for release candidate _rc1 _rc2 _rc3. And then _final. Although, to do anything accurately a compiled list of all the maps would be needed in some form.

#8 fraac

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 10:46 PM

Excellent idea, OP.



#9 Luop90

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 04:06 AM

I agree and disagree with this on some standpoints.

There are exploits in cp_snakewater, that are fixed in _final1. (Such as being able to get off the map) I could see how in this situation forcing lobbies to run _final1 would be useful. But other than potential exploits, there really isn't a reason too. If you don't want to play on that map, simply don't. Some people might enjoy older versions of the map. No reason to force 100% of the lobbies to run a certain way. Maybe a warning to show up saying "This is not the most updated version of the map", but no reason to block lobbies.
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#10 Computer

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 05:05 AM

People will often start a lobby using an older version of a map if there's already lobby with current version up to get around our duplicate lobby system.


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#11 LastTalon

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 06:28 AM

People will often start a lobby using an older version of a map if there's already lobby with current version up to get around our duplicate lobby system.

 

Perhaps to solve this only one lobby is allowed for the map regardless of version. Or perhaps have it so if the newest version of the map is up don't allow any others, but if an old version is up allow someone to still make the new version.



#12 kKaltUu

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:45 PM

Ok, another take on this: 
Give the maps that are in the current season of UGC / ETF2L / other leagues a green background, orange for maps that are unknown / not played often / etc...

 

a bit like this mockup:

 

2MbejMH.jpg


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#13 FromZero2Hero

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:11 PM

Ok, another take on this: 
Give the maps that are in the current season of UGC / ETF2L / other leagues a green background, orange for maps that are unknown / not played often / etc...

 

a bit like this mockup:

 

2MbejMH.jpg

 

 

TF2Center will give achievements for playing unpopular maps. Isn't it a bit contradictory to make a difference between popular and unpopular maps? And imo it's not really necessary to highlight maps that are currently played in leagues. I think giving a warning for older maps is just the best thing to prevent older map versions or version that are not used in competitive. 



#14 kKaltUu

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:37 PM

Again, due to naming conventions there is no way we can reliably assess if a map is old (opposed to checking the list of current league maps). 



#15 LastTalon

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 06:48 PM

Again, due to naming conventions there is no way we can reliably assess if a map is old (opposed to checking the list of current league maps). 

 

Actually I'm working on this.



#16 MasterNoob

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:07 AM

How about TF2C team comes up with a list of "standard versions" for every map, so everybody at least knows we're consistent.



#17 fraac

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 12:41 PM

I agree with this, but I think the best way of doing it would be to have the current versions of maps highlighted in the list.

 

Please remove cp_process_final1, which isn't even a map afaik, but people probably select it before realising it's on no servers.



#18 kKaltUu

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 03:04 PM

You mean a list from the past competitive seasons, like this?
 
6v6:
  • cp_badlands
  • cp_gullywash_final1
  • cp_granary
  • cp_process_final
  • cp_snakewater_final1
  • cp_logjam_b10
  • koth_pro_viaduct_rc4
  • koth_coalplant_b2
  • cp_metalworks_rc5
  • cp_Sunshine_b2
Highlander:
  • pl_badwater 
  • cp_steel
  • pl_upward 
  • koth_pro_viaduct_rc4 
  • cp_gravelpit
  • cp_steel
  • cp_process_final
koth_ramjam_b8 ??????? 
 
Bball:
  • ctf_bball_comptf
  • ctf_ballin_sky
  • ctf_bball_alpine_b4
  • cctf_bball_eventide
  • ctf_bball_parkade
  • ctf_bball_snow_b1
  • ctf_bball_stadium_a3
  • ctf_pro_bball
ultiduo:
  • ultiduo_seclusion_b3
  • ultiduo_nicecicles
  • ultiduo_nature_rc1
  • ultiduo_gullywash_b2
  • ultiduo_baloo
  • ultiduo_badlands_b1
  • koth_ultiduo_r_b7


#19 Luop90

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 05:58 PM

You forgot a couple highlander maps-
pl_swiftwater_ugc
pl_barnblitz_pro4
koth_lakeside_final
cp_snakewater_final1
cp_gullywash_final1
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#20 kKaltUu

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 04:30 PM

Mind linking me to the league that runs those this season?







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