29 replies to this topic

[The Once and Future King]

I'm going to post this here so that there is a proper place to actually discuss this.

 

Since there is no actual enforcement of the mumble requirement then why even bother having it at all?

It's kind of a joke to have a mumble required lobby and then allow people not to use it because the system may as well not exist at that point.... what if there were 7 people missing from mumble, you need 4 to kick someone and would only had two.  How could you even kick those people?  

 

Even if it's only 1 or 2 persons missing from mumble, It's almost impossible to get 4 people to kick someone for not being in mumble because they always laugh and go "it's only a lobby." and then end up kicking you when you refuse to let the team ready up until you have 9 in mumble.

 

Leave your comments, maybe if enough people agree that this is a problem the staff will actually start doing something about it.

Edited by The Once and Future King, 04 July 2014 - 07:48 PM.

[TheMattgician]

I couldn't find a thread here or in the Archive about this, but it has been discussed a lot (I did find this).

Also, Kind seems to be making allusion to this thread: http://forums.tf2cen...-its-mandatory/

 

Well this is a complicated problem. I definitely agree that this should be addressed one way or another. However, simply having ban requests will be a huge hassle for the mod team, and more of a short term solution.

There was the idea of mumbility, a rep for Mumble if you will. The problem is that the details get messy, and from what I hear Mumble isn't the most fun to work with.

[The Once and Future King]

I couldn't find a thread here or in the Archive about this, but it has been discussed a lot.

Also, Kind seems to be making allusion to this thread: http://forums.tf2cen...-its-mandatory/

 

 

This is a result of that thread (and constant problems I have trying to get teams to !rep people not in mumble and having them get pissed off at me for even caring despite the fact that these idiots can join non-mumble lobbies but don't).  I want'd to put this somewhere where it was in an appropriate discussion thread.

 

 

As it is I don't really understand why they even bother with the mumble requirement if nobody really cares about it anyway.

 

This also speaks to a larger issue that has also been discussed before which is the "it's only a lobby" attitude and people not taking games seriously.  Allowing people to not be in mumble in mumble required lobbies only encourages this attitude.

Edited by The Once and Future King, 04 July 2014 - 07:56 PM.

[VoidWhisperer]

It shouldn't. You should be able to kick people from the lobby if they don't join mumble, but not ban from the website.

[The Once and Future King]

It shouldn't. You should be able to kick people from the lobby if they don't join mumble, but not ban from the website.

 

The problem is:

 

Even if it's only 1 or 2 persons missing from mumble, It's almost impossible to get 4 people to kick someone for not being in mumble because they always laugh and go "it's only a lobby." and then end up kicking you when you refuse to let the team ready up until you have 9 in mumble.

 

(Did you even read my post?)

 

So how do you suggest we kick people from the game when it's impossible to get 4 people to do so?

If it's not going to be enforced why even have the mumble requirement?

Edited by The Once and Future King, 04 July 2014 - 08:17 PM.

[TheMattgician]

TOaFK, we understand there's a problem. We'd rather try finding a solution then whacking around the bush. So far, banning is not an option.

[The Once and Future King]

TOaFK, we understand there's a problem. We'd rather try finding a solution then whacking around the bush. So far, banning is not an option.

 

It doesn't need to be a permanent ban ... nobody is saying that.  Just that if they received a temp lobby join ban maybe they would learn not to do it again.  what about banning them from Mumble lobbies? (is that even possible?)

 

I've seen no other ideas other than this mumbler reliability thing which is going to do nothing to prevent them from not joining unless someone sets the reqs on their lobby and given how few reqs there are already that seems unlikely to be the norm.

[VoidWhisperer]

 

TOaFK, we understand there's a problem. We'd rather try finding a solution then whacking around the bush. So far, banning is not an option.

 

It doesn't need to be a permanent ban ... nobody is saying that.  Just that if they received a temp lobby join ban maybe they would learn not to do it again.  what about banning them from Mumble lobbies? (is that even possible?)

 

I've seen no other ideas other than this mumbler reliability thing which is going to do nothing to prevent them from not joining unless someone sets the reqs on their lobby and given how few reqs there are already that seems unlikely to be the norm.

 

 

In a different post related to this, I pointed out that yes, it should be a ban in some cases if it's done repeatably and with intent. If it's just done every so often, they likely have a legitimate reason for it, and it should be let slide. I'm just saying we shouldn't go 'OH THIS GUY DIDN'T JOIN MUMBLE, BAN!'. That has a negative impact. If we warn people when they do it to give them another chance before they are banned, it makes more sense.

[<basically deleted>]

It should be. It's very annoying to play in a lobby with a particular class that needs to communicate with its team mates, and where nobody is using mumble (even the medic).

 

They KNOW that mumble is mandatory, that they HAVE TO JOIN mumble. If they don't, they just want to break the rules imo.

 

And of course, if your team isn't using mumble and the enemy team is, they will wreck us. It's very annoying. What can you do when only you (for instance, the heavy) and the scout are on mumble ?

 

They have lobbies without mumble, where they can "pub". You should at least warn them for not being on mumble. And if they recur, they should be banned

Edited by Melionelus, 04 July 2014 - 09:25 PM.

[TheMattgician]

The dev team has been working on more invisible things directed towards optimization, but they'll now be focusing on lobby quality, including but not limited to, mumble shenanigans. I won't get into detail, but spoiler alert

Spoiler

it doesn't involve banning everyone

[The Once and Future King]

 

Spoiler

it doesn't involve banning everyone

 

Nobody is talking about banning everyone.

[LastTalon]

I think people are kind of looking at this from a weird perspective. Why not do some checks to ensure that people are in mumble for the mumble required lobbies. These checks could be similar to the checks to ensure that they are in the tf2 server. They would need to be more lenient of course because of the situation. The action taken as a result of not being in mumble could vary widely as well. It could kick them from the lobby and request a sub, affect their reliability rating, or even have a separate reliability for mumble attendance. Feel free to discuss.

 

Edit: I'm not going to vote on this false dichotomy that is simultaneously begging the question in the poll.

Edited by LastTalon, 04 July 2014 - 09:46 PM.

[VoidWhisperer]

I think people are kind of looking at this from a weird perspective. Why not do some checks to ensure that people are in mumble for the mumble required lobbies. These checks could be similar to the checks to ensure that they are in the tf2 server. They would need to be more lenient of course because of the situation. The action taken as a result of not being in mumble could vary widely as well. It could kick them from the lobby and request a sub, affect their reliability rating, or even have a separate reliability for mumble attendance. Feel free to discuss.

 

Edit: I'm not going to vote on this false dichotomy that is simultaneously begging the question in the poll.

 

I'm pretty sure there is some stuff in the works to keep track of if people do or don't join mumble.

[LastTalon]

I'm pretty sure there is some stuff in the works to keep track of if people do or don't join mumble.

Well that sounds good then. Looking forward to it.

[Taddy]

There's clearly an icon for mumble required lobbies just as there's clearly an icon for which class you're assigned to. We don't see many people playing the wrong class in a lobby because they get punished and banned for it. Just because a large amount of players aren't joining mumble doesn't mean we should ignore it unpunished. This completely ruins the game experience for both teams. The winning team ends up rolling and being bored and the losing team gets frustrated. We aren't requesting that they get banned from the site entirely for it, maybe blocked from joining mumble required lobbies for a time frame? You can make a lobby that doesn't require mumble if you are so against it. 

 

This is what I do to teams that don't use mumble

 

Edited by Taddy, 05 July 2014 - 03:30 AM.

[The Once and Future King]

Yup, just got stuck in a lobby where only two teammates were in mumble (one deafened), so no way to kick the people who were not.  It certainly makes sense for you9 geniuses to say we can kick them when most of the time that is not even possible.

[fraac]

You need to automatically detect and report someone who isn't in Mumble. This is possible, btw.

[TheMattgician]

If this thread is just about saying that there is a problem, it might as well not exist. We all know there's a problem. Solutions is what we need.

 

@fraac: that's what they're planning to do, but there are some aspects of it that aren't that obvious. Also, it's not that useful to report someone who isn't in mumble if half the team isn't there. Ideally, the situation wouldn't even arise (which would be better without complete banning).

I would suggest having a temp ban from Mumble lobbies. They still show up, but you can't click them. Then, you somehow get back that right by waiting, or, a personal favorite, by subbing lobbies.

[<basically deleted>]

To begin, you should write a guide to explain why mumble is important in lobbies. This is perhaps because players don't know why is that very important.

[VoidWhisperer]

Yup, just got stuck in a lobby where only two teammates were in mumble (one deafened), so no way to kick the people who were not.  It certainly makes sense for you9 geniuses to say we can kick them when most of the time that is not even possible.

 

The name calling is not necessarily needed. My kick comment was more geared toward when 1-2 people aren't in mumble, as is likely to happen than 7 people not in mumble. As I said above, my opinion on it is basically just that if it happens once in a very long time, just to let it go, but it if happens multiple times, then report the user or something.