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Feedback on reliability changes



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#1 Foxy

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 10:19 PM

Post for feedback on the reliability changes outlined in the News post.



#2 The Once and Future King

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 10:33 PM

 

Hi all!

 

one of the key ones brought up is that having a 95% reliability over 1000 lobbies means nothing for what you're doing right now, and if you left a few lobbies at the start of your TF2C playing career they reliability is hit much harder.

 

The way I read this you are saying that lobbies early weigh higher.  I thought it was a straight percentage like, if I dropped 5 lobbies of 100 I have a reliability of 95% but this statement ("if you left a few lobbies at the start", past tense, implying that you are no longer in the beginning of your career but the fact that you missed them in the beginning still maters.) implies that lobbies from early in your career are somehow worse for you.  Is this correct or are these actually just two different thoughts merged into one sentence?  I think I understand what you are saying is that while you are still in the beginning of your TF2C career missing a lobby will hurt your % more than when you have twice as many, thrice as many, or so on; am I correct or am I missing something about the way %'s are currently calculated?


Edited by The Once and Future King, 24 June 2014 - 10:35 PM.


#3 Foxy

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 10:35 PM

If you've played 3 games and left 1, you have a reliability of 67%. If you leave the next, it's down to 50%. This is kind of possible for new players, since they may not understand how things work or have everything set up.

 

The percentages are currently a straight calculation, but missing 2 games out of 4 is much worse than 2 out of 400.



#4 fraac

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 10:38 PM

It's a good change. When will it be live?



#5 Foxy

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 10:39 PM

The next time we release, which will be some time in the next few days.



#6 The Once and Future King

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 10:42 PM

I'm assuming you plan to tweak the quantity of lobbies that are taken into account after trialing at 10 necessary since 1 bad password problem will result in a 90% which is not bad, but one TF2 update while you are trying to lobby after that one brings it to 80%?


Edited by The Once and Future King, 24 June 2014 - 10:42 PM.


#7 Foxy

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 10:44 PM

I'm assuming you plan to tweak the quantity of lobbies that are taken into account if necessary since 1 bad password problem will result in a 90% which is not bad, but one TF2 update while you are trying to lobby after that one brings it to 80%.

We will, although to be honest both those problems should be sorted now anyway (let me know if they're not), and they shouldn't impact reliability anyway!



#8 GoldenPhoenix

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 01:26 AM

personally, I think that the number should be somewhere between 20 and 50, so that the number hits are a bit more modulated. Also, this might not be possible, but maybe you could have it as the average of the past x amount of time, instead of x games, so that if you leave for a while because you keep crashing, when you come back after fixing it, your score won't be the 20% from a couple months ago. Not sure if that's possible to do, but it would be nice, seeing as some people might not come back because nobody wants to play with a 20% reliability pyro.



#9 Kkleap

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 11:31 AM

In 24/06/2014 My reliability was 84% .
Then i joined a 6v6 Match as a roamer, I did go afk for some seconds because of my cat and then it showed my i got kicked.
After this , my Reliability go down to 50%. I really afraid people wont let me in because my reliability is really low because of it and i have about 250 lobbies played already. I want it to go up to 100% Any help ? :c



#10 FromZero2Hero

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 06:18 PM

This is ridiculous. I played 1 lobby today and in another lobby I got reported before I actually joined the game (after a crash) and my reliability dropped from 100% to 50%. This is working in a different way for me.

 

Besides that, 10 lobbies isn't really a lot of games. With some bad luck you time out once and get reported for some stupid reason and your reliability is fucked.


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#11 Luop90

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 11:10 PM

Yeah, I think the number should definitely be higher than 10. My internet recently sometimes freezes for about 20-30 seconds, and I've gotten repped out because players think I'm afk, when its just an internet bloop. And because of that, I now have a 50% reliability. 2 lobbies played, and I got repped out of one.


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#12 Feel the burn

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 10:25 PM

I personally think this is a bullshit change.

So I've played close to 1,300 lobbies. I have 60 something ragequits. Which is nothing realistically.
So let's say I "ragequit" 4 times in a roll because I have a technical problem. That's a big hit to reliability.

 

I think you should go back to the old system. I don't see a problem with sending warnings to players that ragequit too much, but calculating reliability on the last ten games? That doesn't make any sense.


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#13 fraac

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 08:27 AM

Could make it 20 and give new players 5 completed ones for free (so if they leave their first one they're at 83% - it's better that the numbers are useful rather than meaningful).


Edited by fraac, 27 June 2014 - 08:28 AM.

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#14 TheMattgician

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 02:07 PM

I like Fraac's idea for new players. But I'd say maybe take count of even more than 20 lobbies.

 

But the sliding scale makes the most sense of all. You can design a curve to give you approximately what you want (kind of like what I was thinking of here).



#15 DZCreeper

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 04:19 AM

Seriously annoying. I have over 500 lobbies and have played the entirety of nearly everyone of them, even if the teams were stacked to hell and back. Then I find out that repping myself because my internet connection shat itself is -10% simply because tf2center only counts the last 10 lobbies. That's just fucked up, what if someone had a streak of bad luck and got 4 or 5 bad lobbies in a row. Now they are fucked with 50 or 60% rep and will probably get kicked from everything they try and join. It doesn't matter if they have hundreds of lobbies like me, 50% rep would make even the best player look unreliable.

 

TL:DR: Fucking it read it. Rep system is fucked 6 ways to Sunday.


Edited by TheMattgician, 03 July 2014 - 10:46 AM.
Merged Threads; Original title: "Increase amount of lobbies that count towards rep."

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#16 Taddy

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 10:17 PM

I don't get it, so if I miss 290 out of 300 games, but show up to the next 10 games in a row I'll have 100% reliability? 

 

So what if your reliability was hit harder on new TF2C profiles? You can always build it back up just as easily by playing in servers that don't have requirements (which is like 99% of the servers created) or create your own server. If it was a huge problem you could program it to stay at 100% till X amount of total games is passed then calculate. 


Edited by Taddy, 03 July 2014 - 10:25 PM.


#17 Taddy

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 11:00 PM

Seriously annoying. I have over 500 lobbies and have played the entirety of nearly everyone of them, even if the teams were stacked to hell and back. Then I find out that repping myself because my internet connection shat itself is -10% simply because tf2center only counts the last 10 lobbies. That's just fucked up, what if someone had a streak of bad luck and got 4 or 5 bad lobbies in a row. Now they are fucked with 50 or 60% rep and will probably get kicked from everything they try and join. It doesn't matter if they have hundreds of lobbies like me, 50% rep would make even the best player look unreliable.

 

TL:DR: Fucking it read it. Rep system is fucked 6 ways to Sunday.

 

 

LOL I love this guy.

 

Anyway in another situation if someone missed 1000 games, but show up to the next 10 in a row they are considered 100% reliable? That just doesn't make any sense to me. Even if it was the next 50 games they showed up to it still wouldn't make sense to me - hey I missed like 1000 games, but showed up to the next 50 in a row, I'm reliable now! This isn't the definition of being reliable.  

 

Reliability isn't a joke, but you're making it a joke by allowing it to be easily recovered with this system. You crashing frequently or leaving games completely changes the outcome of a lobby. One person down is very significant in both 6v6 and 9v9 and you should be punished with a bad record. If you miss a lot of games you should have to work to regain your reputation since you ruined the experience for multiple players multiple times by not playing for whatever reason.

 

If new players was your main concern here you should program the site to show 100% till X amount of total games is passed and then calculate.


Edited by Taddy, 03 July 2014 - 11:03 PM.


#18 The Once and Future King

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 03:53 PM

Problem:  People who have fewer lobbies are hit harder every time they miss a lobby.

 

Solution:  Make it so that everybody is fucked when they miss a lobby instead of just people who are new to the site.

 

Edit:  Here's a nice benefit of this system:  I clicked one of those links that idiots like to post in general chat.  It turned out to be a sub link so I was force joined into the lobby, but what the dumbass didn't mention is it was an EU lobby, so I obviously am not going to play on it which means I now will have a 10% penalty because someone else was an idiot.


Edited by The Once and Future King, 04 July 2014 - 04:28 PM.


#19 LastTalon

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 06:16 PM

Perhaps some kind of curve algorithm could be used to determine the reliability. One where older games are counted less based on time since they were played and newer games are counted more because they are the most recent and most relevant. In my mind this would be a viable solution, however I know there may be some technical problems with this as I don't believe that TF2Center currently records lobby data per player to know when they played each lobby and therefore can't calculate how long ago each was. Still perhaps this is something to look at implementing as the current reliability system only goes back 10 games anyway, meaning if this sort of system were implemented now its not as if people would complain that they suddenly lost all of their reliability and you could still have a smooth transition, but the reliability would only be counted from this point forward.


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#20 Taddy

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 08:21 PM

This is pretty simple, you miss games you should have to work for the reliability back not just get 10% increases for playing the next game. Use the original system and create a threshold for new players to show 100% until they hit a certain amount of total games. 







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