29 replies to this topic

[Jetz_]

Just earlier today there were four lobbies up, 3 trolls and a Viaduct. Joined spy on viaduct and the teams looked even and I knew it was going to be a good game, then disaster struck, the owner hadn't joined yet and spy, sniper, soldier and scout had been taken so his natural response was to ban a spy, I had to wait awhile for an actual lobby to come up.

 

tl;dr encourage reserving slots/modify the ban system/remove it

[TheMattgician]

By ban you mean kick. The problem is that it needs to be there to remove annoying players from the lobby. There's isn't much modification that I can think of that would leave that feature alone, while preventing the leader from kicking a player because he's in the spot he wanted, but left.

[loop]

The feature isn't to blame. An arrogant lobby leader is.

[Jetz_]

By ban I mean, the lightening button, preventing you from coming back and joining a dif. spot, nothing wrong with the kick function imo 

[The Once and Future King]

either way, weather kick or ban if the lobby leader somehow gets removed from their slot, which happens all the time when I join/start lobbies and then browse other lobbies either I somehow click somewhere I wasn't trying or I just mysteriously am moved to spectate when I get back to the lobby I thought I was in, once they get in and find their spot taken they will just close and remake the lobby if they can't kick/ban someone out of their slot.

[TheMattgician]

The thing is that it's unfair to whoever is taking the slot left by the leader, accidental or not. He might have left another slot for this one, but unfairly loses both. Anyone else might have the same problem as the leader, but they don't get to kick the person for their own benefit. To a certain extent, it's a bit like leader abuse in my eyes.

[R.E.M.]

This is blatent leader abuse and should be reported in the ban request section.

[fraac]

Maybe the leader should be unable to leave without deliberately clicking the leave button. It's too easy to drop out of your slot for reasons I'm not even sure about.

[The Once and Future King]

Maybe the leader should be unable to leave without deliberately clicking the leave button. It's too easy to drop out of your slot for reasons I'm not even sure about.

 

 

Agreed, I've had so many times where I went to a lobby tab that I had open only to find I no longer occupied the slot I thought I did even though I never entered a slot in any other lobby so there is no reason I should have been removed from it.  It's more of a problem for me when I am not the leader since I'm not an idiot so I just reserve a slot for myself if I create a lobby, but if say I forgot to reserve it or didn't for some reason you can bet my damn server is not getting used  without me there unless I had not planned on doing a lobby so someone is getting kicked from a slot, and I would not consider correcting a site error leader abuse since I should not have to sacrifice my server for a half hour when I want to play a lobby on it  just because the site is not working properly and removed me from a slot I was in.

Edited by The Once and Future King, 18 June 2014 - 07:09 PM.

[Vortex]

This is blatent leader abuse and should be reported in the ban request section.

 

Is this really? I'm interested. The leader created the lobby and the game hasn't even started yet, so it's within their power to close the lobby entirely if he/she chooses. Reserving slots or kicking players for whatever reason *before the game starts* seems fine to me. Leader abuse to me seems like kicking people off classes while the game is already running or using rcon to put cheats on.

[R.E.M.]

 

This is blatent leader abuse and should be reported in the ban request section.

 

Is this really? I'm interested. The leader created the lobby and the game hasn't even started yet, so it's within their power to close the lobby entirely if he/she chooses. Reserving slots or kicking players for whatever reason *before the game starts* seems fine to me. Leader abuse to me seems like kicking people off classes while the game is already running or using rcon to put cheats on.

 

 

Closing lobby if they have to leave is fine. Kicking someone who joined the slot fairly just because they want to play in that slot and they either left it or missed the ready up is not. If they create a lobby they have to be fair to other players and they don't have any special rights over other users with the exception of slot reservation/kicking/banning. The former function is so they can invite friends to lobbies and the other two functions are to remove troublemakers/hackers/unsavoury people from their lobby. Any other usage of these functions is most likely abusive. Lobby leaders do not have slot priority over other users.

[The Once and Future King]

Even so ... since leaders have the ability to kick/ban players all they need to do when kicking someone for a slot is claim that they have encountered that person before and they didn't want them in their lobby.  Nobody can prove otherwise so unless TF2C uses the policy of guilty until proven innocent the burden of proof that the kick was malicious is on the person who got kicked and would then need to report and there is absolutely no way to prove that unless the leader admits to it, because of this I don't see how you could enforce any kind of punishment as a result of this "leader abuse".

[TheMattgician]

It's not because it's difficult that we'll ignore it.

 

The idea of making it more difficult for the leader to change classes/leave the lobby is interesting though.

[flip]

I don't think getting the slot back that you had in the first place is abuse. I've seen people lose a slot and within milliseconds someone else snatches it up. If someone is donating their server to allow other people to play lobbies on, I think they should be allowed to pick which class they want to play.

[R.E.M.]

I don't think getting the slot back that you had in the first place is abuse. I've seen people lose a slot and within milliseconds someone else snatches it up. If someone is donating their server to allow other people to play lobbies on, I think they should be allowed to pick which class they want to play.

 

That wasn't what I was saying though. If a lobby leader (or anyone) literally just lost their slot for some BS reason then they're perfectly in their rights to kick that person but if they left their slot 5-10 mins ago and never came back or were AFK for the ready up then that's their fault.

[The Once and Future King]

 

I don't think getting the slot back that you had in the first place is abuse. I've seen people lose a slot and within milliseconds someone else snatches it up. If someone is donating their server to allow other people to play lobbies on, I think they should be allowed to pick which class they want to play.

 

That wasn't what I was saying though. If a lobby leader (or anyone) literally just lost their slot for some BS reason then they're perfectly in their rights to kick that person but if they left their slot 5-10 mins ago and never came back or were AFK for the ready up then that's their fault.

 

 

So you're saying when you are waiting for a lobby to fill you do nothing but stare at the lobby screen?  That's some damn dedication right there.

 

It can take someone 5-10 minutes or more to even realize that they have mysteriously been booted from their slot.  I often don't notice it until the ready up because I am either in a game or watching TV and don't check back until the ready up prompt at which point it is usually too late, but sometimes, just sometimes I return just to check the progress of filling and find that my I was somehow removed and it hasn't filled yet so there would still be time to do something about it.

[R.E.M.]

So you're saying when you are waiting for a lobby to fill you do nothing but stare at the lobby screen?  That's some damn dedication right there.

 

No... I leave the page open and do other things in another tab or play MGE/watch videos/listen to music. I've never had a problem with missing the ready up timer because I use the pre-rup button if I'm AFK and the sound prompt is loud enough to be heard over anything else I do and it's pretty distinctive as well. I think I've had the slot bug out on me once or twice and if that happens then either rejoin the slot, ask politely for someone who replaced you to leave or else tough luck, life's a bitch at which point I go find another lobby. I think all in all though I think I've had to leave maybe 3 lobbies out of the 500 and something I've played because of people refusing to leave after I lost my slot to a bug/BS kicking.

 

It can take someone 5-10 minutes or more to even realize that they have mysteriously been booted from their slot.  I often don't notice it until the ready up because I am either in a game or watching TV and don't check back until the ready up prompt at which point it is usually too late, but sometimes, just sometimes I return just to check the progress of filling and find that my I was somehow removed and it hasn't filled yet so there would still be time to do something about it.

 

So either you were kicked by the lobby leader or your slot reservation bugged out and you got kicked for some reason. If the lobby leader kicked you then ask him why he did it (or if he even did it) or just rejoin the slot and if you bugged out then that's a BS reason which if you read my original response it says

 

If a lobby leader (or anyone) literally just lost their slot for some BS reason then they're perfectly in their rights to kick that person

 

Although again, at least in my experience, this is a pretty rare occurance. I'm not gonna bother replying to you anymore though because almost every post I write you try and criticise as if you have some sort of issue with me so I'm just gonna leave you to it.

[The Once and Future King]

 because almost every post I write you try and criticise as if you have some sort of issue with me so I'm just gonna leave you to it.

 

 

Funny .... I could say the same about you.

[R.E.M.]

 

 because almost every post I write you try and criticise as if you have some sort of issue with me so I'm just gonna leave you to it.

 

 

Funny .... I could say the same about you.

 

 

I have no issues with you whatsoever. Shall we not derail the thread with this?

[LastTalon]

I find this topic interesting, and I can see the viewpoints of either side. However, I believe that if a the owner of a lobby has for whatever reason been out of a slot in a lobby they had been in and a new player joins the slot and for a significant amount of time they have as much right to play in that slot as the original owner of the slot. Just as with lost property, after a significant amount of time without the true owner claiming the property, the finder of the property becomes the owner. It is only fair to that person after having invested the time into it. To simply have the original owner come back far later and claim that it is still theirs quite frankly ridiculous.

 

As for how to handle it I think that this should be something that is able to be reported as leader abuse. I don't think disallowing them to kick or ban is a good idea for the reasons given above of moderation of the lobby. But with the power and responsibility of moderating a lobby you set up should come the accountability for improper use.