12 replies to this topic

[Mokonah]

Hello there,

First of all, I've got to say the lot of you are pulling off a rather admirable feat here with this system. I mean, the beta alone has put an end to 80% of the typical issues we'd face daily in our manual AU pug system. So yes, congratulations and a sincere thank you for your efforts thus far. I had a quick forum search for my topics and didn't find anything but I apologise if there was and I neglected to find it.

My suggestions at this stage

1) At some point figure out a way to prevent those mumble-hopping idiots with the awful mic-spam from so freely ruining games. I know there's some people out there who can do some pretty clever stuff with token systems and linked channels, etc.

2) A few people have had a grumble about the fact that when they host a new server (and perhaps this is just an AU thing with the quick-filling) that by the time the server's gone up and the page reloads into the lobby they've missed out on their class. I know that as host you can just kick people and such but perhaps if enough people are suffering the same issue an option could exist to reserve the host's slot? I personally don't have this issue because I'll keep a second tab open to jump right into my lobby but *shrugs* just something to think about I suppose.

3) Maybe region specific chat tabs like; Global, EU, US, Oceania, Support (for admin help) and Requests (for the lobby link spam)? Don't get me wrong, love me some international mingling in the chat box but there's been plenty of times I've seen important stuff go unnoticed in the spam and other nonsense.

4) I've heard a bit of whining about are skill levels. The AU higher division players get cranky when newbies wander in and I can tell what you're thinking already -- use the handy hours restriction. Trouble is that the hours restriction doesn't really distinguish our 3000 hour premier division players from the 3000 hour pub heroes and achievement idlers. The other suggestion was to simply come up with skill-specific passwords but they always end up getting out or causing confusion. I haven't really come up with any solution to this -- perhaps a skill level tag on the lobbies? Newbie, Novice, Intermediate, Advanced and Expert or something? Not sure, just rambling here.

5) Not sure how popular the Ultiduo gametype is around the globe but I've heard a lot of positive encouragement to see it suggested as an addition to your game types.

Anyway, hopefully some of that essay is valuable feedback for you guys. Keep up the excellent work and I will endevour to continue reporting feedback where I can.

Regards,
Mokonah

[R.E.M.]

 

...but perhaps if enough people are suffering the same issue an option could exist to reserve the host's slot?

 

Hosts can already reserve any slot they like when they set up the lobby. Reserved slots require a password to enter so if a bunch of people (e.g. a team) from AU want to play a server then the host can reserve the appropriate class slots on the same team.

 

 

I haven't really come up with any solution to this -- perhaps a skill level tag on the lobbies? Newbie, Novice, Intermediate, Advanced and Expert or something? Not sure, just rambling here.

 

I would personally not like this because people from different skill levels regularly mingle and play together for fun or if they're mentoring. I quite often play with div 3/4 in a lobby whereas I am a very new div 6 player.

 

I think perhaps a better solution would be to able to lock lobbies based on win/loss ratio. Therefore the really bad players who will lose the majority of their games will be filtered out. Also I know that a blacklisting system is coming so you can effectively block a player from joining your lobbies.

 

 

Not sure how popular the Ultiduo gametype is around the globe but I've heard a lot of positive encouragement to see it suggested as an addition to your game types.

 

Ultiduo is already coming to TF2C.

 

 

Other than that nice ideas

[Mokonah]

Hosts can already reserve any slot they like when they set up the lobby. Reserved slots require a password to enter so if a bunch of people (e.g. a team) from AU want to play a server then the host can reserve the appropriate class slots on the same team.

This might just be an AU specific issue. Due to the fact that we live on a desert island with awful ping to the rest of the world and really only run 1-2 pugs at any given time, it remains important to our players gaming experience that we keep the slots in our lobbies locked with an AU-specific password. In short, while the reserved slot system is ace and supposed to be used to combat the issue I've outlined -- in order to ensure our pugs are filled with only AU players (for ping purposes) we lose that function. I hear that region-specific options might be on the cards for lobby creation in the future, or perhaps maybe even the ability to specify a ping range with warnings and auto-kick like some pub servers use?

 

I think perhaps a better solution would be to able to lock lobbies based on win/loss ratio. Therefore the really bad players who will lose the majority of their games will be filtered out. Also I know that a blacklisting system is coming so you can effectively block a player from joining your lobbies.I would personally not like this because people from different skill levels regularly mingle and play together for fun or if they're mentoring. I quite often play with div 3/4 in a lobby whereas I am a very new div 6 player.

 

 

I personally don't feel a win/ratio will be very helpful -- there are just far too many reasons you could easily stack up a depressing loss streak without it being your fault whatsoever. TEAM fortress 2, with team being the operative word here. The ability to tag your lobby with a specific skill level would be more helpful I feel. That said, I've heard there may be an inconceivably better system on the horizon anyway so I don't plan to concern myself too much.

I understand that playing up divisions and mingling is a big part of growing as a player in this game, as such it would be as simple as having an 'open' or 'all divisions/skills' tag in the dropdown to cater to those needs. Actually, the more I think about it the more I realise how neat it'd be to have the option sometime in the future to have spectator slots! How cool would it be to grab a notepad and pen to kick back and spec the pro players doing what they do best? If they don't want specs they can simply lock the spec slots/turn them off and enjoy some privacy instead.

[TheMattgician]

I think perhaps a better solution would be to able to lock lobbies based on win/loss ratio. Therefore the really bad players who will lose the majority of their games will be filtered out. Also I know that a blacklisting system is coming so you can effectively block a player from joining your lobbies.

 

I usually play spy in HL, so my win loss doesn't really reflect my skill. I don't think one can blame the loss of a lobby on a single player, as there are way too many factors (Once our team was playing very well, but the sniper on the other team was completely wrecking us). It probably makes more sense to have a rating system where players are encouraged to positively rate their team mates if they do well. However, there are a lot of counterblancing issues to think of, such as preventing abuse of the system, or the fact people get better and would be penalized etc...

I also support the spectator slot idea, but I think a many servers don't have enough slots. The spectator could be muted in the mumble to listen to the calls and whatnot. However, it could be used for ghosting (no idea why the hell anyone would do that, but its a possibility) so thats also something to consider.

[VoidWhisperer]

I think perhaps a better solution would be to able to lock lobbies based on win/loss ratio. Therefore the really bad players who will lose the majority of their games will be filtered out. Also I know that a blacklisting system is coming so you can effectively block a player from joining your lobbies.

 

This is not a very optimal idea, as the win:loss ratio is not based on your skill alone. You could just get unfortunately stuck with bad people and have a high loss ratio despite being good at your class. One way that might be possible to filter based on skill level is to filter based on division in the various leagues.

[R.E.M.]

I usually play spy in HL, so my win loss doesn't really reflect my skill. I don't think one can blame the loss of a lobby on a single player, as there are way too many factors (Once our team was playing very well, but the sniper on the other team was completely wrecking us). It probably makes more sense to have a rating system where players are encouraged to positively rate their team mates if they do well. However, there are a lot of counterblancing issues to think of, such as preventing abuse of the system, or the fact people get better and would be penalized etc...

I also support the spectator slot idea, but I think a many servers don't have enough slots. The spectator could be muted in the mumble to listen to the calls and whatnot. However, it could be used for ghosting (no idea why the hell anyone would do that, but its a possibility) so thats also something to consider.

 

To be honest, on reflection, my idea was pretty bad. When I was thinking about it I was thinking about 6s and not HL. I actually like your idea about rating teammates. Even though that system can be abused if people play in whole teams, the majority of people, including me will play lobbies by themselves at some point and over time the system will tend to flag bad players. The spectator slot idea on the other hand is far too open for abuse and most private lobbies I've come across have 12 slots only.

 

This is not a very optimal idea, as the win:loss ratio is not based on your skill alone. You could just get unfortunately stuck with bad people and have a high loss ratio despite being good at your class. One way that might be possible to filter based on skill level is to filter based on division in the various leagues.

 

This would not be good because some of the good players I've seen are not in teams at all so can't be classed by division. Besides there are lots of decent enough div 6 players on the site who can't really be classed since technically everyone who isn't div 5+ is div 6 and even then I like playing with some of my higher div friends in lobbies.

[TheMattgician]

I actually like your idea about rating teammates. Even though that system can be abused if people play in whole teams, the majority of people, including me will play lobbies by themselves at some point and over time the system will tend to flag bad players.

 

As I've said, the system would require counterbalancing. Perhaps the better rated players would have a more heavily weighted rating. Also, I wouldn't have requirements based on such rating because it would promote elitism. Its an idea that needs tinkering (which I'd love to do if the admins make me part of the team *hint hint*).

[TheMattgician]

Someone made a topic to discuss a rating system, I put the important ideas from here there.
 

[MOOSE_]

I think it would be very helpful for new players trying to get into tf2, and for experienced tf2 players looking for a chalange, to have a skill level recommendation. There could be several skill tabs, similar to divisions in competetive tf2, or tabs like tf2 mix as opposed to tf2 pug na.

Another idea is that a lobby leader could put a recommended skill level, on their lobby. 

Maybe something like:

Beginner

Intermediate

Experienced

 

looking for certain skill levels could be adjusted in the filters options.

I think this would help a lot of people!

Thanks!

I added an example of what it could look like

Attached Files

•  Capture.PNG   29.31KB   1 downloads

[mikey99222]

if they had skill based ones (eg based on lobbies and hours ) that would work

[Feel the burn]

Newbie, Novice, Intermediate, Advanced and Expert or something?

 

That's way too specific. 

But it's not a bad idea, I can see an "Advanced" tag like the mumble one as a quick and cheap fix though not perfect, if the players get a popup this is a "serious" lobby and not joining mumble and not knowing rollouts, the map, the class you're playing, etc won't be tolerated, that might at least make the people with no interest in the competitive meta game, think a bit before they join the lobby. And in time more features might be added to these "Advanced" lobbies like a randomized lineup for the teams and in even more time the ranking system a lot of the more anal players on the forum have required.

 

But, again, it does open up possibility for a lot of elitism and shit flinging so the "Basic" lobby principle we have right now should remain an option as well.

[ninjaMooCow]

I like the idea of classifying a lobby.

Maybe a lack of classification would indicate all skill levels are accepted?  I have fun playing with pros, and I like helping beginners.

[Saga]

Lobby classiciations work because people care and would only go lobbies that match their skill. After all it works already for mumble-required lobbies, right...?

 

I´d be okay with a customizable profile and people being able to comment there along with ratings. Dunno how much abuse would happen but I actually do no not expect it to be major.