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"Reasonable Offclassing"



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#1 ZePenguin

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 06:37 PM

After the AL update 2 stuff got added, 100% offclassing or only on last.

I think it's bad and there should be a 3rd option. For example: I don't want a perma sniper, but lets say you hold mid and you spawn, you can go sniper to play for a pick, but if a guy dosent want any perma snipers he'll put offclassing off and it'd be kinda boring. Offclassing is a part of 6s. But not only on last, more on when its reasonable. Even in product, when you spawn alone you might as well go spy.

So my point is: There should be a 3rd option: "Reasonable Offclassing." What is Reasonable offclassing? Offclass when it's needed, when gamesense allows it.

E.G: Spy/Sniper to mid: not reasonable

Heavy to keep holding on Product (Yes, It's a strat in some cases) reasonable

and so on.

Thanks in advance.



#2 Hoxy

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Posted 31 October 2016 - 04:37 PM

I always put offclassing as allowed on my lobbies just to have them more "like ETF2L" , and some people like to abuse it by running perma huntsman sniper, perma pyro, offclassing as a role that shouldn't offclass, and making the lobby a huge mess. But disabling offclassing would just feel too radical, wasting too many opportunities for a viable pick-offclass... 

The problem with offclassing is it cannot be calculated by % of playtime, it cannot be calculated on which cap you offclass, it is more on situation, Here's the breakdown:

Spy is a stalemate class, which cannot be used too frequently or the enemy team will be spy-ware and therefore the Spy will be useless.
Sniper can be run more frequently, but is more of a pick class, best on last pushes or likewise to break stalemates. a Better sniper can run perma, and perma sniper is viable on maps like koth_product_rc8. However, do be advised that people will look out for you and stay out of sightlines, so perma on 5cp is not advised. If the sniper is not utilizable, he should switch back

Heavy is best as a fast last defense or to enhance firepower. Should never be ran to mid due to his slow speed, with the exception of koth_product_rc8 and other koth maps. 
Engi is good for last defense if you have more time  Can also be used with Gunslinger today if they have powerful Scouts that need to be countered - more defensively, though.Not very viable for being too offensive. 
Pyro is good for last defense, for uber denial, can also be used to counter good projectile classes - defensively. Not too viable for bigger offense.

+ offclasses on maps commonly not played on 6v6, such as pl_

To me, reasonable offclassing should be the one and only option for offclassing. The problem however is that many players in TF2Center simply do not have enough of a gamesense to estimate these right and some downright use offclasses in the sense of "eh, who cares"

So something like this would be very difficult to pin down.

One option would be to simply leave it up to the players, that unviable offclassers can simply be !rep ped if doing it for a prolonged time, or reported on the forums if it's a repeated issue. But I do not know how that would turn out...



#3 Nakada

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 09:17 PM

I fully support and agree with this as well. Today the enemy demo was spawn camping our forward spawn and off classing wasn't allowed. Technically I shouldn't be allowed to go pyro to airblast the stickies away cause it's not on last and it's an offclass. Another time, the enemy had a sniper defending second that made it hard for my team to push. That's a reasonable offclass, and for me to go sniper as well to try and countersnipe would be reasonable too. But since the rule is so black and white neither of us should be allowed to do so.


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#4 happs

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 05:10 PM

I play medic mostly.  Sometimes, (although very rarely), I employ the "pull the goalie" strat.  If we are down a significant number of players, and the enemy team is pushing into our last.  And I think that we cannot make an effective hold using healing alone, I quickly switch to pyro to buy our respawners enough time to come out.

 

As soon as we start to stabilize, I immediately switch back.

 

It doesn't usually work-- but I have made a few impressive holds that I don't think would've worked otherwise.

 

While technically against the rules; I feel that such action is consistent with the spirit of the rule.

 

I would like to see the onus on the person reporting a player provide proof of improper off-classing over the current norm of the reported player justifying their actions with STV recordings.

 

Additionally, I would like to see the removal of the perma-ban for off-classing. and perhaps the ability for lobby leaders to see off-classing ban history.  Then the community can decide during the lobby creation if a known off-classer would ruin their lobby experience.


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#5 jebaćtf2center

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 11:21 PM

jebać was wszystkich kurwy jebane centerowskie ścierwo bez skilla jebane



#6 Chrash

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 05:13 PM

Remove the offclassing ban and just build it in to the config. It's so frustrating to join a server and find out you were banned after it finishes. A lot of people, myself included, have chat turned off. The non-eye catching chat warnings are not fit for purpose and it is THE most frustrating thing I find about lobbies. 99% of the time, it's a reasonable offclass or a dead lobby. Why not just build in insta-suicide after 90 seconds or so







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